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According to this way more recent study they are totally reversible: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929693X24001763 https://www.sciencedire

According to this way more recent study they are totally reversible: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929693X24001763 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0929693X2... And this one says the same: https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article/20/3/398/7005631 https://academic.oup.com/jsm/article/20/3/398/7005631 And then there's article from Yale that actually disproves the cass report where the NHS guidelines are based on: https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity-project_cass-response.pdf https://law.yale.edu/sites/default/files/documents/integrity... > I have nothing against trans people, but many people draw the line when it comes to kids. Except when those children happen to be trans, that case they're not allowed to exist or be mutilated for life, even though it's easily preventable

zahlman 2y ago
>According to this way more recent study they are totally reversible: And this one says the same: I see nothing in your links that supports those conclusions. The second one at least asserts that recipients overwhelmingly don't want to reverse the effects, but this too is a complex topic (see e.g. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-transgender-children-transition/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-trans... ). Also, the link you're responding to isn't a "study", but rather a position document from the NHS (UK national healthcare).
- irisgrunn 2y ago
  > I see nothing in your links that supports those conclusions. I'd start with chapter 5.2.1.7 go from there. > but this too is a complex topic (see e.g. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-trans https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-trans... ). You can either force a trans kid to develop the wrong kind of secondary sex characteristics. With all trauma and painful corrective procedures that will follow later in life, or you can let them take a pill a day which will halt it until they're old enough to make that decision. That really doesn't seem difficult to me. > Also, the link you're responding to isn't a "study", but rather a position document from the NHS I know but it's still based on the cass report, which claims to be a study.
  - zahlman 2y ago
    >I'd start with chapter 5.2.1.7 go from there. As far as I can tell, you linked to abstracts for a paywalled academic papers. >You can either The point is about the objective fact of what the kids want. Your moral judgement of what should be done as a result, is irrelevant to that.
    - irisgrunn 2y ago
      > As far as I can tell, you linked to abstracts for a paywalled academic papers. Just scroll down, no paywall. > The point is about the objective fact of what the kids want. Your moral judgement of what should be done as a result, is irrelevant to that. This has nothing to do with my moral judgment. If a kid gets diagnosed with gender-dysphoria, they should get proper treatment. Social transition in combination with puberty blockers are the known effective treatment. Not sure about the US, but here gender-dysphoria in children has to be diagnosed by a team of professionals that aren't allowed to steer them in any way.
jimbokun 2y ago
I appreciate the study links, but it makes it really hard to take you seriously when you claim trans kids are not allowed to “exist”. That’s extreme hyperbole, as if they’re still alive they obviously exist.
- irisgrunn 2y ago
  If you don't allow for proper treatment like social transitioning and puberty blockers, they can't be themselves and therefore they can't exist. Next to this there's also risk of those kids committing suicide because they can't get proper treatment, which is only getting worse with all the anti-trans laws. See https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01979-5.epdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01979-5.epdf
  - auung 2y ago
    [dead]
    - irisgrunn 2y ago
      So is that "critique"
      - auung 2y ago
        Do you have any substantive criticism you could share?
        irisgrunn 2y ago
        For example how it cites the cass report that's been debunked quite a few times already
        auung 2y ago
        The Cass Review covers a lot of ground. Which parts of relevance to that article are you claiming have been "debunked", and on what basis?

zahlman 2y ago

>According to this way more recent study they are totally reversible: And this one says the same: I see nothing in your links that supports those conclusions. The second one at least asserts that recipients overwhelmingly don't want to reverse the effects, but this too is a complex topic (see e.g. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-transgender-children-transition/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-trans... ). Also, the link you're responding to isn't a "study", but rather a position document from the NHS (UK national healthcare).

irisgrunn 2y ago
> I see nothing in your links that supports those conclusions. I'd start with chapter 5.2.1.7 go from there. > but this too is a complex topic (see e.g. https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-trans https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/09/08/acc-entry-should-trans... ). You can either force a trans kid to develop the wrong kind of secondary sex characteristics. With all trauma and painful corrective procedures that will follow later in life, or you can let them take a pill a day which will halt it until they're old enough to make that decision. That really doesn't seem difficult to me. > Also, the link you're responding to isn't a "study", but rather a position document from the NHS I know but it's still based on the cass report, which claims to be a study.
- zahlman 2y ago
  >I'd start with chapter 5.2.1.7 go from there. As far as I can tell, you linked to abstracts for a paywalled academic papers. >You can either The point is about the objective fact of what the kids want. Your moral judgement of what should be done as a result, is irrelevant to that.
  - irisgrunn 2y ago
    > As far as I can tell, you linked to abstracts for a paywalled academic papers. Just scroll down, no paywall. > The point is about the objective fact of what the kids want. Your moral judgement of what should be done as a result, is irrelevant to that. This has nothing to do with my moral judgment. If a kid gets diagnosed with gender-dysphoria, they should get proper treatment. Social transition in combination with puberty blockers are the known effective treatment. Not sure about the US, but here gender-dysphoria in children has to be diagnosed by a team of professionals that aren't allowed to steer them in any way.

jimbokun 2y ago

I appreciate the study links, but it makes it really hard to take you seriously when you claim trans kids are not allowed to “exist”. That’s extreme hyperbole, as if they’re still alive they obviously exist.

irisgrunn 2y ago
If you don't allow for proper treatment like social transitioning and puberty blockers, they can't be themselves and therefore they can't exist. Next to this there's also risk of those kids committing suicide because they can't get proper treatment, which is only getting worse with all the anti-trans laws. See https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01979-5.epdf https://www.nature.com/articles/s41562-024-01979-5.epdf
- auung 2y ago
  [dead]
  - irisgrunn 2y ago
    So is that "critique"
    - auung 2y ago
      Do you have any substantive criticism you could share?
      - irisgrunn 2y ago
        For example how it cites the cass report that's been debunked quite a few times already
        auung 2y ago
        The Cass Review covers a lot of ground. Which parts of relevance to that article are you claiming have been "debunked", and on what basis?