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People were similarly apprehensive about IVF. Some contemporary takes about "test tube babies" were positively hysterical. Fear of the unknown is strong in us,

People were similarly apprehensive about IVF. Some contemporary takes about "test tube babies" were positively hysterical. Fear of the unknown is strong in us, especially when it comes to our bodies. See also, anti-vaxxerism.

api 2y ago
I think humans will eventually self-improve with genetic engineering -- e.g. shifting the median IQ up by 30 points, life extension, disease resistance, eliminating heritable conditions -- but the ethical and societal issues will take much longer to address than the technology. We could already do some of this. I think some of the concern is reasonable and some isn't.
coldtea 2y ago
>People were similarly apprehensive about IVF And rightly so. It's used as a patch for many social issues (like declining fertility and careerism).
- inglor_cz 2y ago
  Isn't the entire civilization about "patching issues"? Outside rural Sahel or Afghanistan, the world has moved on to an industrial or post-industrial society, where it is no longer desirable to keep women illiterate and start having babies at 17, when the natural fertility is at its peak, then immediately employing small kids as goatherds. IVF is a partial patch for increasing educational levels of the general population. I am fine with a more educated population.
  - coldtea 2y ago
    >Isn't the entire civilization about "patching issues"? Too general a statement to answer - if anything and everything can be considered a "patch". The course of civilization solves some problems and creates others. Some of the issues it solves are huge wins. Other times, the problems can be way worse than what there was. For example, if we accept, for argument's sake, that the AI doomers are right, and AI kills or enslaves us all, that would be an example of a civilization's patch being worse than the issue patched. >IVF is a partial patch for increasing educational levels of the general population. I am fine with a more educated population. If the alternative is decline and death, I'd chose life. Goat-herder sure beats office drones and depressed doom-scrollers, which is what we increasingly produce.
    - inglor_cz 2y ago
      "Goat-herder sure beats office drones and depressed doom-scrollers, which is what we increasingly produce." Do you speak from experience? Goat-herding in a state of constant food-, water- and physical insecurity, with zero amenities or healthcare, might be enjoyable for some (though maybe less so at the age of five), but "sure beats" sounds like a hot take from the social media. It is still possible to move to South Sudan or Niger and start a goatherding career there, but few office drones have walked the walk. Quite to the contrary, there is a significant outflow of economic migrants away from such conditions, into the richer parts of the world.

api 2y ago

I think humans will eventually self-improve with genetic engineering -- e.g. shifting the median IQ up by 30 points, life extension, disease resistance, eliminating heritable conditions -- but the ethical and societal issues will take much longer to address than the technology. We could already do some of this. I think some of the concern is reasonable and some isn't.

coldtea 2y ago

>People were similarly apprehensive about IVF And rightly so. It's used as a patch for many social issues (like declining fertility and careerism).

inglor_cz 2y ago
Isn't the entire civilization about "patching issues"? Outside rural Sahel or Afghanistan, the world has moved on to an industrial or post-industrial society, where it is no longer desirable to keep women illiterate and start having babies at 17, when the natural fertility is at its peak, then immediately employing small kids as goatherds. IVF is a partial patch for increasing educational levels of the general population. I am fine with a more educated population.
- coldtea 2y ago
  >Isn't the entire civilization about "patching issues"? Too general a statement to answer - if anything and everything can be considered a "patch". The course of civilization solves some problems and creates others. Some of the issues it solves are huge wins. Other times, the problems can be way worse than what there was. For example, if we accept, for argument's sake, that the AI doomers are right, and AI kills or enslaves us all, that would be an example of a civilization's patch being worse than the issue patched. >IVF is a partial patch for increasing educational levels of the general population. I am fine with a more educated population. If the alternative is decline and death, I'd chose life. Goat-herder sure beats office drones and depressed doom-scrollers, which is what we increasingly produce.
  - inglor_cz 2y ago
    "Goat-herder sure beats office drones and depressed doom-scrollers, which is what we increasingly produce." Do you speak from experience? Goat-herding in a state of constant food-, water- and physical insecurity, with zero amenities or healthcare, might be enjoyable for some (though maybe less so at the age of five), but "sure beats" sounds like a hot take from the social media. It is still possible to move to South Sudan or Niger and start a goatherding career there, but few office drones have walked the walk. Quite to the contrary, there is a significant outflow of economic migrants away from such conditions, into the richer parts of the world.