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If they end up actually shipping this, lots of people will buy these machines to get an AArch64 Linux workstation—even if they are not interested in AI or Nvidi

If they end up actually shipping this, lots of people will buy these machines to get an AArch64 Linux workstation—even if they are not interested in AI or Nvidia GPUs. At $3,000, it will be considerably cheaper than alternatives available today (except for SoC boards with extremely poor performance, obviously). I also expect that Nvidia will use its existing distribution channels for this, giving consumers a shot at buying the hardware (without first creating a company and losing consumer protections along the way).

kllrnohj 2y ago
> At $3,000, it will be considerably cheaper than alternatives available today $3000 gets me a 64-core Altra Q64-22 from a major-enough SI today: https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1-n1/configure https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1-n1/configure And of course if you don't care about the SI part, then you can just buy that motherboard & CPU directly for $1400 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp... with the 128-core variant being $2400 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140135 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp...
- adrian_b 2y ago
  That Altra may be a good choice for certain server applications, like a Web server, but when used as a workstation it will be sluggish, because it uses weak cores, with much lower single-threaded performance than the Arm cores used in NVIDIA Digits. For certain applications, e.g. for those with many array operations, the 20 cores of Digits might match 40 cores of Altra at equal clock frequency, but the cores of Digits are likely to also have a higher clock frequency, so for some applications the 20 Arm cores of Digits may provide a higher throughput than 64 Altra cores, while also having a much higher single-thread performance, perhaps about double. So at equal price, NVIDIA Digits is certainly preferable as a workstation instead of a 64-core Altra. As a server, the latter should be better.
  - kllrnohj 2y ago
    I mean I can get a Snapdragon X Elite laptop for $1200 that'll have a faster CPU than the one in the Digits, too...
    - adrian_b 2y ago
      Their speeds should be very similar, but which is faster is uncertain. There have not been any published benchmarks demonstrating the speed of Cortex-X925 in a laptop/mini-PC environment. In smartphones, Cortex-X925 and Snapdragon Elite have very similar speeds in single thread. For multithreaded applications, 10 big + 10 medium Arm cores should be somewhat faster than 12 Snapdragon Elite. The fact that NVIDIA Digits has a wider memory interface should give it even more advantages in some applications. The Blackwell GPU should have much better software support in graphics applications, not only in ML/AI, in comparison with the Qualcomm GPU. So NVIDIA Digits should be faster than a Qualcomm laptop, but unless one is interested in ML/AI applications the speed difference should not be worth the more than double price of NVIDIA.
      - fweimer 2y ago
        If the Nvidia system runs reasonably well with stock distribution kernels, it may well be worth the extra price. Usually, an optimized, custom kernel is a warning sign, but maybe they have upstreaming plans, and support for other distributions is planned.
    - sliken 2y ago
      Sure, but less than half the memory bandwidth and inference is largely bandwidth bound.
      - kllrnohj 2y ago
        The context was people that don't care about AI or Nvidia GPUs and just want an AArch64 system. So inference performance is irrelevant here > lots of people will buy these machines to get an AArch64 Linux workstation—even if they are not interested in AI or Nvidia GPUs.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fweimer 2y ago
  I had not seen the System76 systems before. They don't have distributors, and unlike the major OEMs, they don't take care of the customs details for intentional shipments. Prices for systems built with these older Ampere CPUs have come down at the local SIs as well (those that refuse to consumers), which I had not noticed before. Still the workstation form factor seems to be somewhat unique to System76 (unless, as you said, you build your own). Still I expect the Nvidia systems will be easier to get, especially for (de jure) consumers.

kllrnohj 2y ago

> At $3,000, it will be considerably cheaper than alternatives available today $3000 gets me a 64-core Altra Q64-22 from a major-enough SI today: https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1-n1/configure https://system76.com/desktops/thelio-astra-a1-n1/configure And of course if you don't care about the SI part, then you can just buy that motherboard & CPU directly for $1400 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp... with the 128-core variant being $2400 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140135 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp...

adrian_b 2y ago
That Altra may be a good choice for certain server applications, like a Web server, but when used as a workstation it will be sluggish, because it uses weak cores, with much lower single-threaded performance than the Arm cores used in NVIDIA Digits. For certain applications, e.g. for those with many array operations, the 20 cores of Digits might match 40 cores of Altra at equal clock frequency, but the cores of Digits are likely to also have a higher clock frequency, so for some applications the 20 Arm cores of Digits may provide a higher throughput than 64 Altra cores, while also having a much higher single-thread performance, perhaps about double. So at equal price, NVIDIA Digits is certainly preferable as a workstation instead of a 64-core Altra. As a server, the latter should be better.
- kllrnohj 2y ago
  I mean I can get a Snapdragon X Elite laptop for $1200 that'll have a faster CPU than the one in the Digits, too...
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    Their speeds should be very similar, but which is faster is uncertain. There have not been any published benchmarks demonstrating the speed of Cortex-X925 in a laptop/mini-PC environment. In smartphones, Cortex-X925 and Snapdragon Elite have very similar speeds in single thread. For multithreaded applications, 10 big + 10 medium Arm cores should be somewhat faster than 12 Snapdragon Elite. The fact that NVIDIA Digits has a wider memory interface should give it even more advantages in some applications. The Blackwell GPU should have much better software support in graphics applications, not only in ML/AI, in comparison with the Qualcomm GPU. So NVIDIA Digits should be faster than a Qualcomm laptop, but unless one is interested in ML/AI applications the speed difference should not be worth the more than double price of NVIDIA.
    - fweimer 2y ago
      If the Nvidia system runs reasonably well with stock distribution kernels, it may well be worth the extra price. Usually, an optimized, custom kernel is a warning sign, but maybe they have upstreaming plans, and support for other distributions is planned.
  - sliken 2y ago
    Sure, but less than half the memory bandwidth and inference is largely bandwidth bound.
    - kllrnohj 2y ago
      The context was people that don't care about AI or Nvidia GPUs and just want an AArch64 system. So inference performance is irrelevant here > lots of people will buy these machines to get an AArch64 Linux workstation—even if they are not interested in AI or Nvidia GPUs.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fweimer 2y ago
I had not seen the System76 systems before. They don't have distributors, and unlike the major OEMs, they don't take care of the customs details for intentional shipments. Prices for systems built with these older Ampere CPUs have come down at the local SIs as well (those that refuse to consumers), which I had not noticed before. Still the workstation form factor seems to be somewhat unique to System76 (unless, as you said, you build your own). Still I expect the Nvidia systems will be easier to get, especially for (de jure) consumers.