5 ms·

I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses. Coming from a place with decent and cheap public transport, no one like

I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses. Coming from a place with decent and cheap public transport, no one likes it. It'll never be as fast, you'll always be closed in a bacteria greenhouse with strangers, there will always be crazies, it'll never have the exact path you need, you don't have as much control over it.. For the past year I've been commuting on a motorcycle with no car and even with snow it's surprisingly fine. Maintenance is cheap since it's much more DIY friendly, I get back from work up to 65-70% faster than cars, usually 35-40% (rush hour), I average 5,8-6,1 l/100 without trying to save fuel.. It's very comfy if you're not in a location where winters are particularly harsh. But at that point freezing your ass off at a bus station waiting to get in the bacteria greenhouse isn't great either.

alamortsubite 2y ago
You're way overplaying the dangers of "crazies" and "the bacteria greenhouse" with respect to travel by motorcycle or scooter (or even automobile). I agree with your point that we should encourage these modes of transportation over cars, but I'd add it will be electric bikes that finally turn the tide on traffic congestion in cities (and all the other great benefits that come with doing that). Just don't tell the electric bike people that they're essentially riding motorcycles.
- Lanolderen 2y ago
  I mean, I'm definitely biased but I've been sick once since ~2015 and that was Covid I caught at a large anniversary celebration. Before that I was <18 and would get sick every winter in my opinion due to people caughing all around me on the bus for 45 minutes per direction. With crazies it's not that bad. I remember the bus getting pulled over once by a car with people with pipes/bats who beat a grandpa for getting in an argument with one of the guys prior. That was the only actually violent occurance over thousands of rides, however I still have yet to feel as threatened with a personal vehicle. With a car I could have rammed the fuck out of them or ran them over, with a bike I could have been gone in a second, when the bus driver stops and opens the front door you're just stuck. Again, realistically it's mostly crazy homeless people who pose no threat but I prefer to have some control at least. My issue with electric bicycles is: If limited they don't fit with pedestrians or cars so you need to complicate infrastructure. Good for going to the post office but not as a daily since they're just not fast enough. Lovely for old people and to an extent kids. If not limited they are less tested motorcycles with usually shitty tires and brakes, no ABS, TC, etc with pedals to fulful some potentially existing legal loophole since there's no way you're doing anything close to the motor output manually yet since you feel inclined to pedal gear becomes problematic. I still have yet to try an electric motorcycle but I'd guess the little electric scooters would be great for commuting. I'm guessing an electric scooter that can do 100-140kmh would be the utility sweet spot. You'd be able to go everywhere and charge for pennies with minimal maintenance. You'd also get the scooter benefits of improved road muck/weather protection and actual underseat storage.
  - durumu 2y ago
    In Manhattan ebike access is excellent -- there are tons of bike lanes and bikeshare stations. They are typically as fast as Ubers for getting around the city since traffic is so bad here, and much cheaper. The main issue is that it's not very safe. Probably this does not generalize to most other US cities.
    - CoffeeOnWrite 2y ago
      Unfortunately the citi bikes are expensive enough that they may be more expensive than sharing an uber with one other person. Anecdote, paid $15 x 2 to take two citi bikes across Brooklyn to avoid a two-leg l-shaped subway ride. Coming home took a $25 uber. The bike trip was ~30% faster. It sucked having to navigate around all the delivery trucks and random private cars parked in the bike lane. $15 seems too much to me for the citi bike for a 25 minute ride. But I'd do it again to save 10 minutes sitting in traffic in an uber. Oh and the next day we did the same journey via l-shaped subway ride. It took about 10 minutes more than the bike ride, and included an awkward street-level and overpass transition between the two subway lines. Much much cheaper than uber or bike. My take is there are a variety of crappy options to get around Brooklyn.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - saalweachter 2y ago
    > however I still have yet to feel as threatened with a personal vehicle. There's an old saying that if you can't spot the sucker at the poker table, you're the sucker. If you've never felt threatened while driving a personal vehicle by all the road-raging, speeding, tailgating assholes--
  - 3ple_alpha 2y ago
    I've driven electric motorbike for 7 years and it's absolutely great for everyday commute. Lighter ones tend to have removable batteries so they work even when you don't have a garage with electric outlet. Some heavier ones you can even take on an occasional long trip, though that's not super convenient – it's commuting (combined with joy of riding) that makes them useful. One does need to know where one is going to service it, though, because they can sometimes have stupid electrical issues which are objectively easy to fix but hard for you to fix on your own cause you don't know which wire goes where.
- bradlys 2y ago
  In NYC, I disagree. I get sick very frequently whenever I take the subway. It is absolutely disgusting. The amount of crazy people on there is a lot too. Every friend has some story of some person assaulting or nearly assaulting them on the subway. No one truly feels safe on it.
  - dml2135 2y ago
    I truly feels safe on the NYC subway. You know what's more dangerous than riding the subway? Driving in a car.
    - rendang 2y ago
      Driving in a car is pretty dangerous when you're in some Texas suburb with 50mph arterial streets. Going 20mph through lower Manhattan with an intersection every few hundred feet, not so much
      - dml2135 2y ago
        Some quick googling gives me the following figures: https://www.chopranocerino.com/blog/new-york-accident-statistics-2024/#:~:text=There%20were%205%2C809%20crashes%20on,total%2C%20there%20were%207%2C253%20injuries https://www.chopranocerino.com/blog/new-york-accident-statis.... > There were 5,809 crashes on the busy streets of Manhattan in 2023. The borough reported 34 deaths (19 pedestrians, 11 motorists, and 4 cyclists). In total, there were 7,253 injuries. https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/articles/how-rare-is-crime-on-the-subway#:~:text=To%20the%20first%20point%2C%20there%20were%201%2C120%20violent%20index%20crimes%20reported%20as%20occurring%20on%20the%20subway%20in%202023%2C%20compared%20to%20935%20in%202019 https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/articles/how-rare-is-crime-on-t... > ...there were 1,120 violent index crimes reported as occurring on the subway in 2023, compared to 935 in 2019 Even comparing just Manhattan to the subway system as a whole, driving is more likely to result in an injury by a factor of 7x.
      - kkkqkqkqkqlqlql 2y ago
        https://youtu.be/xloWKKVxZqI?si=IHNFOcGhiQHX3opN https://youtu.be/xloWKKVxZqI?si=IHNFOcGhiQHX3opN Dangerous to who? Cause you seem to forget about the people outside of the car.
khafra 2y ago
Coming to a place with decent and cheap public transport six months ago: 1. It's faster than commuting by car during rush hour, and otherwise 10%-20% longer within the city limits. 2. There's no crazies. I haven't seen so much as someone rocking and muttering, let alone bothering other passengers. 3. Yeah, it's a petri dish--I've been sick enough to miss days of work twice in the last six months, which is more than in the two years before moving here. I'm not sure how well 1 and 2 could generalize from Germany to America. You'd need Harberger Taxes or liberal use of Eminent Domain to put rail networks into a city. You'd need competent and well-funded law enforcement to curtail the crazies. #3 we could fix in either area with UVC and filtered air circulation; or I could just get comfortable with being the weirdo wearing an N95 mask every day I have also commuted by motorcycle for around 30k miles. It does save a lot of money, but it's not much faster than cars if you're strictly following the law in the 49 states where lane splitting isn't fully legal. You also have 90 times the risk of death per mile travelled, compared to a car, which balances the increased disease risk on a train.
blehn 2y ago
No one likes decent and cheap public transport? I find that hard to believe. It's basically the common denominator for the best modern cities. Motorcycles are definitely not the solution. Motorcycle usage in NYC has skyrocketed since 2020 and as a result the streets are far noisier, more chaotic, and more dangerous, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.
- Lanolderen 2y ago
  I mean it in the sense that I've literally never met a person who prefers travelling by public transport to a personal motorized vehicle outside of long trips. The usage I've seen of it is from people who are too much of a mess financially to afford a car/license or people who are terrified of driving. Incentives just don't fix the issue of having no control and being in a pod with a hundred people you don't know and who have not been screened for insanity, excessive odor, sickness and general obnoxiousness. And there are scooters and commuter bikes which are tamer, even electric ones. I'm not saying everyone should get sports bikes with 16 Rs in the name and a straight pipe or a Harley Tractor. Out of curiosity, are motorcycles actually more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists than cars? Couldn't find anything quick enough.
  - code_for_monkey 2y ago
    I prefer public transit! No parking, I dont feel nearly the same frustration, I dont have to make decisions, and at the end of the day I can be a little high on the train. Its bliss.
  - mitthrowaway2 2y ago
    Hi, nice to meet you! I prefer public transit because when I ride it I don't have to drive or find a parking spot! And I believe it to be safer on balance.
  - asdff 2y ago
    Chiming in to say I also prefer public transit. Why focus on the ride at all when I can just read a book and teleport? And the real danger of motorcycles is to yourself. You could end up living with a feeding tube slipping in a shower let alone a minor scuff at 25mph.
potato3732842 2y ago
>I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses Will never happen. Too 3rd worldy for many of the demographics that tend to drive policy on transit matters.
- CoffeeOnWrite 2y ago
  E-bikes though?

alamortsubite 2y ago

You're way overplaying the dangers of "crazies" and "the bacteria greenhouse" with respect to travel by motorcycle or scooter (or even automobile). I agree with your point that we should encourage these modes of transportation over cars, but I'd add it will be electric bikes that finally turn the tide on traffic congestion in cities (and all the other great benefits that come with doing that). Just don't tell the electric bike people that they're essentially riding motorcycles.

Lanolderen 2y ago
I mean, I'm definitely biased but I've been sick once since ~2015 and that was Covid I caught at a large anniversary celebration. Before that I was <18 and would get sick every winter in my opinion due to people caughing all around me on the bus for 45 minutes per direction. With crazies it's not that bad. I remember the bus getting pulled over once by a car with people with pipes/bats who beat a grandpa for getting in an argument with one of the guys prior. That was the only actually violent occurance over thousands of rides, however I still have yet to feel as threatened with a personal vehicle. With a car I could have rammed the fuck out of them or ran them over, with a bike I could have been gone in a second, when the bus driver stops and opens the front door you're just stuck. Again, realistically it's mostly crazy homeless people who pose no threat but I prefer to have some control at least. My issue with electric bicycles is: If limited they don't fit with pedestrians or cars so you need to complicate infrastructure. Good for going to the post office but not as a daily since they're just not fast enough. Lovely for old people and to an extent kids. If not limited they are less tested motorcycles with usually shitty tires and brakes, no ABS, TC, etc with pedals to fulful some potentially existing legal loophole since there's no way you're doing anything close to the motor output manually yet since you feel inclined to pedal gear becomes problematic. I still have yet to try an electric motorcycle but I'd guess the little electric scooters would be great for commuting. I'm guessing an electric scooter that can do 100-140kmh would be the utility sweet spot. You'd be able to go everywhere and charge for pennies with minimal maintenance. You'd also get the scooter benefits of improved road muck/weather protection and actual underseat storage.
- durumu 2y ago
  In Manhattan ebike access is excellent -- there are tons of bike lanes and bikeshare stations. They are typically as fast as Ubers for getting around the city since traffic is so bad here, and much cheaper. The main issue is that it's not very safe. Probably this does not generalize to most other US cities.
  - CoffeeOnWrite 2y ago
    Unfortunately the citi bikes are expensive enough that they may be more expensive than sharing an uber with one other person. Anecdote, paid $15 x 2 to take two citi bikes across Brooklyn to avoid a two-leg l-shaped subway ride. Coming home took a $25 uber. The bike trip was ~30% faster. It sucked having to navigate around all the delivery trucks and random private cars parked in the bike lane. $15 seems too much to me for the citi bike for a 25 minute ride. But I'd do it again to save 10 minutes sitting in traffic in an uber. Oh and the next day we did the same journey via l-shaped subway ride. It took about 10 minutes more than the bike ride, and included an awkward street-level and overpass transition between the two subway lines. Much much cheaper than uber or bike. My take is there are a variety of crappy options to get around Brooklyn.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- saalweachter 2y ago
  > however I still have yet to feel as threatened with a personal vehicle. There's an old saying that if you can't spot the sucker at the poker table, you're the sucker. If you've never felt threatened while driving a personal vehicle by all the road-raging, speeding, tailgating assholes--
- 3ple_alpha 2y ago
  I've driven electric motorbike for 7 years and it's absolutely great for everyday commute. Lighter ones tend to have removable batteries so they work even when you don't have a garage with electric outlet. Some heavier ones you can even take on an occasional long trip, though that's not super convenient – it's commuting (combined with joy of riding) that makes them useful. One does need to know where one is going to service it, though, because they can sometimes have stupid electrical issues which are objectively easy to fix but hard for you to fix on your own cause you don't know which wire goes where.
bradlys 2y ago
In NYC, I disagree. I get sick very frequently whenever I take the subway. It is absolutely disgusting. The amount of crazy people on there is a lot too. Every friend has some story of some person assaulting or nearly assaulting them on the subway. No one truly feels safe on it.
- dml2135 2y ago
  I truly feels safe on the NYC subway. You know what's more dangerous than riding the subway? Driving in a car.
  - rendang 2y ago
    Driving in a car is pretty dangerous when you're in some Texas suburb with 50mph arterial streets. Going 20mph through lower Manhattan with an intersection every few hundred feet, not so much
    - dml2135 2y ago
      Some quick googling gives me the following figures: https://www.chopranocerino.com/blog/new-york-accident-statistics-2024/#:~:text=There%20were%205%2C809%20crashes%20on,total%2C%20there%20were%207%2C253%20injuries https://www.chopranocerino.com/blog/new-york-accident-statis.... > There were 5,809 crashes on the busy streets of Manhattan in 2023. The borough reported 34 deaths (19 pedestrians, 11 motorists, and 4 cyclists). In total, there were 7,253 injuries. https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/articles/how-rare-is-crime-on-the-subway#:~:text=To%20the%20first%20point%2C%20there%20were%201%2C120%20violent%20index%20crimes%20reported%20as%20occurring%20on%20the%20subway%20in%202023%2C%20compared%20to%20935%20in%202019 https://www.vitalcitynyc.org/articles/how-rare-is-crime-on-t... > ...there were 1,120 violent index crimes reported as occurring on the subway in 2023, compared to 935 in 2019 Even comparing just Manhattan to the subway system as a whole, driving is more likely to result in an injury by a factor of 7x.
    - kkkqkqkqkqlqlql 2y ago
      https://youtu.be/xloWKKVxZqI?si=IHNFOcGhiQHX3opN https://youtu.be/xloWKKVxZqI?si=IHNFOcGhiQHX3opN Dangerous to who? Cause you seem to forget about the people outside of the car.

khafra 2y ago

Coming to a place with decent and cheap public transport six months ago: 1. It's faster than commuting by car during rush hour, and otherwise 10%-20% longer within the city limits. 2. There's no crazies. I haven't seen so much as someone rocking and muttering, let alone bothering other passengers. 3. Yeah, it's a petri dish--I've been sick enough to miss days of work twice in the last six months, which is more than in the two years before moving here. I'm not sure how well 1 and 2 could generalize from Germany to America. You'd need Harberger Taxes or liberal use of Eminent Domain to put rail networks into a city. You'd need competent and well-funded law enforcement to curtail the crazies. #3 we could fix in either area with UVC and filtered air circulation; or I could just get comfortable with being the weirdo wearing an N95 mask every day I have also commuted by motorcycle for around 30k miles. It does save a lot of money, but it's not much faster than cars if you're strictly following the law in the 49 states where lane splitting isn't fully legal. You also have 90 times the risk of death per mile travelled, compared to a car, which balances the increased disease risk on a train.

blehn 2y ago

No one likes decent and cheap public transport? I find that hard to believe. It's basically the common denominator for the best modern cities. Motorcycles are definitely not the solution. Motorcycle usage in NYC has skyrocketed since 2020 and as a result the streets are far noisier, more chaotic, and more dangerous, especially for pedestrians and cyclists.

Lanolderen 2y ago
I mean it in the sense that I've literally never met a person who prefers travelling by public transport to a personal motorized vehicle outside of long trips. The usage I've seen of it is from people who are too much of a mess financially to afford a car/license or people who are terrified of driving. Incentives just don't fix the issue of having no control and being in a pod with a hundred people you don't know and who have not been screened for insanity, excessive odor, sickness and general obnoxiousness. And there are scooters and commuter bikes which are tamer, even electric ones. I'm not saying everyone should get sports bikes with 16 Rs in the name and a straight pipe or a Harley Tractor. Out of curiosity, are motorcycles actually more dangerous for pedestrians and cyclists than cars? Couldn't find anything quick enough.
- code_for_monkey 2y ago
  I prefer public transit! No parking, I dont feel nearly the same frustration, I dont have to make decisions, and at the end of the day I can be a little high on the train. Its bliss.
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  Hi, nice to meet you! I prefer public transit because when I ride it I don't have to drive or find a parking spot! And I believe it to be safer on balance.
- asdff 2y ago
  Chiming in to say I also prefer public transit. Why focus on the ride at all when I can just read a book and teleport? And the real danger of motorcycles is to yourself. You could end up living with a feeding tube slipping in a shower let alone a minor scuff at 25mph.

potato3732842 2y ago

>I wish people would focus more on scooters and motorcycles than moving people in busses Will never happen. Too 3rd worldy for many of the demographics that tend to drive policy on transit matters.

CoffeeOnWrite 2y ago
E-bikes though?