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When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my p

by Zak 2y ago

When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. I asked an LLM the first example question (convert 3 minutes to seconds), and it provided not just the answer, but that there are 60 seconds per minutes, so that's 3 * 60 = 180. I don't think an 11 year old is harmed by that sort of assistance.

AndroTux 2y ago
There’s a difference between not knowing multiplication and just refusing any logical thinking at all. We already see this a lot in adults today. Many are just too lazy to turn on their brain, because it’s easier to call, ask on Reddit or whatever, even if it takes ten times longer than just doing the thinking yourself. This is just the perfection of that. And it’s suuuuper scary, because it trains you to be a brain dead monkey that literally believes anything ChatGPT tells you. And we know how that’ll work out.
- pembrook 2y ago
  Every study done on the topic of “people judging the stupidity of other people” always proves this comment incorrect. With or without AI, we have always thought we are of wildly above average intelligence and that “all the other people are brain dead zombies.” This is just a classic human bias since we don’t ever experience what goes on inside anyones head but ours. Everything is going to be just fine.
  - AndroTux 2y ago
    I don't even know how to respond to that.
    - hackable_sand 2y ago
      You're being dramatic.
    - fivelorn 2y ago
      You can't believe your lying eyes!
david38 2y ago
LLM’s are notoriously bad at math. My company tried it and the results were laughable. A calculator eliminates the arithmetic part, thus doing “all” of “2+2”. Half the point if a word problem is learning how to set up the arithmetic. “Convert 3 minutes to seconds”. You are learning that there are 60 seconds in a minute, that you have to use multiplication, and that the result is in seconds, not something else you need to convert. The LLM does ALL of this for you. You literally just have to copy / paste. Zero learning
mmooss 2y ago
> When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. I find knowing the multiplication tables to be essential. It consumes too much time and distraction to pull out a computing device for everything. I assume you don't use your phone for simple addition either.
- TZubiri 2y ago
  I often find these claims sad "I told Mrs. C fractions were useless and I never needed them, in your face Mrs. C" The thing about knowledge is that you only know when it was useful if you know it, you will never know when you miss it.
ajkjk 2y ago
> We know how that turned out. Yeah... good and useful.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
slt2021 2y ago
memorizing multiplication table enables kids to think past just multiplication and see the patterns and shortcuts. for example instead of multiplying 47*30 one can multiply 50*30 and subtract 3*30 the real benefit is the mathematical muscle gained while doing the memorization and identifying patterns. same reason people are running treadmill not to get to the destination point, and despite having cars which are faster than running
TZubiri 2y ago
> When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. This is a bit sad and dangerous. I also resisted learning the multiplication tables because I was too prideful in being able to calculate them on the spot, but at least I memoized the easy ones like 5x 10x, 9x. The objective of multiplication tables is not to be able to do the calculations that you need, but to aid in wider calculations. You learn the table of multiplications not because most calculations are going to be 1 digit by 1 digit, but because most calculations of more digits can be decomposed into single digit calculations. And further most calculations are part of more complex non math Chains of Thought. Your teacher was building up your cache and LUT so that you could solve these in nanoseconds, and move on to higher order processes in your head. You haven't beaten the system by calling a 200ms API, you have cooked your ALU.
fivelorn 2y ago
I'm so sick of this trope. The point of numeracy is not in case you're suddenly caught without a calculator, although longhand arithmetic is definitely a good skill to possess.

by Zak 2y ago

AndroTux 2y ago

There’s a difference between not knowing multiplication and just refusing any logical thinking at all. We already see this a lot in adults today. Many are just too lazy to turn on their brain, because it’s easier to call, ask on Reddit or whatever, even if it takes ten times longer than just doing the thinking yourself. This is just the perfection of that. And it’s suuuuper scary, because it trains you to be a brain dead monkey that literally believes anything ChatGPT tells you. And we know how that’ll work out.

pembrook 2y ago
Every study done on the topic of “people judging the stupidity of other people” always proves this comment incorrect. With or without AI, we have always thought we are of wildly above average intelligence and that “all the other people are brain dead zombies.” This is just a classic human bias since we don’t ever experience what goes on inside anyones head but ours. Everything is going to be just fine.
- AndroTux 2y ago
  I don't even know how to respond to that.
  - hackable_sand 2y ago
    You're being dramatic.
  - fivelorn 2y ago
    You can't believe your lying eyes!

david38 2y ago

LLM’s are notoriously bad at math. My company tried it and the results were laughable. A calculator eliminates the arithmetic part, thus doing “all” of “2+2”. Half the point if a word problem is learning how to set up the arithmetic. “Convert 3 minutes to seconds”. You are learning that there are 60 seconds in a minute, that you have to use multiplication, and that the result is in seconds, not something else you need to convert. The LLM does ALL of this for you. You literally just have to copy / paste. Zero learning

mmooss 2y ago

> When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. I find knowing the multiplication tables to be essential. It consumes too much time and distraction to pull out a computing device for everything. I assume you don't use your phone for simple addition either.

TZubiri 2y ago
I often find these claims sad "I told Mrs. C fractions were useless and I never needed them, in your face Mrs. C" The thing about knowledge is that you only know when it was useful if you know it, you will never know when you miss it.

ajkjk 2y ago

> We know how that turned out. Yeah... good and useful.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

slt2021 2y ago

memorizing multiplication table enables kids to think past just multiplication and see the patterns and shortcuts. for example instead of multiplying 47*30 one can multiply 50*30 and subtract 3*30 the real benefit is the mathematical muscle gained while doing the memorization and identifying patterns. same reason people are running treadmill not to get to the destination point, and despite having cars which are faster than running

TZubiri 2y ago

> When I was in elementary school, my teachers told me it was very important to memorize multiplication tables because I wouldn't always have a calculator in my pocket. We know how that turned out. This is a bit sad and dangerous. I also resisted learning the multiplication tables because I was too prideful in being able to calculate them on the spot, but at least I memoized the easy ones like 5x 10x, 9x. The objective of multiplication tables is not to be able to do the calculations that you need, but to aid in wider calculations. You learn the table of multiplications not because most calculations are going to be 1 digit by 1 digit, but because most calculations of more digits can be decomposed into single digit calculations. And further most calculations are part of more complex non math Chains of Thought. Your teacher was building up your cache and LUT so that you could solve these in nanoseconds, and move on to higher order processes in your head. You haven't beaten the system by calling a 200ms API, you have cooked your ALU.

fivelorn 2y ago

I'm so sick of this trope. The point of numeracy is not in case you're suddenly caught without a calculator, although longhand arithmetic is definitely a good skill to possess.