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"Clean Up is best explained by this famous photo editing example . . . This tool allows you to capture a moment in time as you wish it happened, not as it actua

by lo_fye 2y ago

"Clean Up is best explained by this famous photo editing example . . . This tool allows you to capture a moment in time as you wish it happened, not as it actually happened." FALSE. Apple defines a photo as a record of something that actually happened. iPhones take photos. They doen't auto-swap a high-res moon in for the real one like Samsung phones do. Clean Up (like crop) is just an editing feature, manually applied after a photo already exists, and using it effectively changes the image from a photo into an "edited image", the same way using Photoshop does. Definitions of What a Photo Is: Apple - "Here’s our view of what a photograph is. The way we like to think of it is that it’s a personal celebration of something that really, actually happened. Whether that’s a simple thing like a fancy cup of coffee that’s got some cool design on it, all the way through to my kid’s first steps, or my parents’ last breath, It’s something that really happened. It’s something that is a marker in my life, and it’s something that deserves to be celebrated." - John McCormack, VP of Camera Software Engineering @ Apple Samsung - "Actually, there is no such thing as a real picture. As soon as you have sensors to capture something, you reproduce [what you’re seeing], and it doesn’t mean anything. There is no real picture. You can try to define a real picture by saying, ‘I took that picture’, but if you used AI to optimize the zoom, the autofocus, the scene — is it real? Or is it all filters? There is no real picture, full stop." - Patrick Chomet, Executive VP of Customer Experience @ Samsung Google - "It’s about what you’re remembering,” he says. “When you define a memory as that there is a fallibility to it: You could have a true and perfect representation of a moment that felt completely fake and completely wrong. What some of these edits do is help you create the moment that is the way you remember it, that’s authentic to your memory and to the greater context, but maybe isn’t authentic to a particular millisecond." - Isaac Reynolds, Product Manager for Pixel Cameras @ Google Definitions via https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/23/24252231/lets-compare-apple-google-and-samsungs-definitions-of-a-photo https://www.theverge.com/2024/9/23/24252231/lets-compare-app...

arkensaw 2y ago
I hate that we have spent the last 20 or so advancing digital cameras to the point where a everyone has an amazing DSLR in their pocket and now we're at the point in history where we have to define what a photograph is, because everyone is trying to shoehorn some shitty AI image gen thing into our cameras for a quick profit
- selykg 2y ago
  Frustrating to me, too, as someone who has recently gotten back into photography and it's difficult to know whether the photos I am using as inspiration are actually real or so highly edited that I'd never be able to achieve something similar. It's one thing to use masks to edit highlights/shadows/color balance for certain areas (skies, buildings, people, etc) but it's an entirely different thing to completely replace the sky, or remove objects because they aren't "appealing"
  - arkensaw 2y ago
    I don't mind so much if photoshop has these abilities but to put them inside the camera app is just such a backward step for creativity
    - walterbell 2y ago
      Camera app with RAW mode?
      - debo_ 2y ago
        Camraw
  - tpmoney 2y ago
    > It's one thing to use masks to edit highlights/shadows/color balance for certain areas (skies, buildings, people, etc) but it's an entirely different thing to completely replace the sky, or remove objects because they aren't "appealing" Almost as long as we've had photos, we've been removing "unappealing" things from them. Famously Stalin had Nikolai Yezhov removed from a photo after he was "purged", but the Soviet Union in general is full of these instances. More lightheartedly, Disney supposedly (though this seems to be subject to some debate) has airbrushed a number of photographs of Walt Disney to remove cigarettes from them. And perhaps most famously of all, Han only shot first if you were born before 1997.
    - 2y ago
enragedcacti 2y ago
> This tool allows you to capture a moment in time as you wish it happened, not as it actually happened. > the Clean Up tool gives users a way to remove distracting elements while staying true to the moment as they intended to capture it. idk, seems like the author described it the exact same way Apple does in their marketing copy. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/10/apple-intelligence-is-available-today-on-iphone-ipad-and-mac/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/10/apple-intelligence-is...
InvisibleUp 2y ago
I’d agree with your assessment of what Apple considers a photograph if I could turn off the post-processing that turns everything in the background into a smeary, blobby mess.
- xena 2y ago
  https://halide.cam/ https://halide.cam/ has Process Zero, which is about as close as you can get to straight off the sensor. Here's a photo I took with it: https://bsky.app/profile/xeiaso.net/post/3le3dd53zlk2c https://bsky.app/profile/xeiaso.net/post/3le3dd53zlk2c Easily the best camera app I've ever purchased. It makes me not want to pull out my mirrorless camera as much to get decent photos.
- dcrazy 2y ago
  That’s Portrait Mode. You only get that if you change from Photo mode to Portrait mode in the Camera app, or in later OSes by retroactively applying a Portrait effect in Edit mode. The addition of the latter feature also made it possible to retroactively remove the Portrait Mode effect from a photo, as long as you have the actual source asset and not a rendered JPEG/HEIC with the effect baked in.
- gnopgnip 2y ago
  If you mean the fake bokeh that blurs the background, turn off portrait mode. You can toggle "pro raw" in the default camera app. It captures a lot more information from the sensor. The files are a lot larger, it isn't throwing away information that isn't visible like in the shadows. This gives you more flexibility like changing color balance and exposure after the fact because of that extra data. But there is still some sharpening and post processing. You can use the camera app inside lightroom or "procamera" or other apps and take raw photos, where it records all of the sensor data without any post processing. Most people don't want this, you need to develop the images using software like lightroom to look good.
hawkjo 2y ago
This comment and the article they came from are a perfect snapshot of this moment. The fact that major players at each company have made public statements about the philosophical definition of what a photo is. I mean, of course they have. Of course. The times be wild.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

by lo_fye 2y ago

arkensaw 2y ago

I hate that we have spent the last 20 or so advancing digital cameras to the point where a everyone has an amazing DSLR in their pocket and now we're at the point in history where we have to define what a photograph is, because everyone is trying to shoehorn some shitty AI image gen thing into our cameras for a quick profit

selykg 2y ago
Frustrating to me, too, as someone who has recently gotten back into photography and it's difficult to know whether the photos I am using as inspiration are actually real or so highly edited that I'd never be able to achieve something similar. It's one thing to use masks to edit highlights/shadows/color balance for certain areas (skies, buildings, people, etc) but it's an entirely different thing to completely replace the sky, or remove objects because they aren't "appealing"
- arkensaw 2y ago
  I don't mind so much if photoshop has these abilities but to put them inside the camera app is just such a backward step for creativity
  - walterbell 2y ago
    Camera app with RAW mode?
    - debo_ 2y ago
      Camraw
- tpmoney 2y ago
  > It's one thing to use masks to edit highlights/shadows/color balance for certain areas (skies, buildings, people, etc) but it's an entirely different thing to completely replace the sky, or remove objects because they aren't "appealing" Almost as long as we've had photos, we've been removing "unappealing" things from them. Famously Stalin had Nikolai Yezhov removed from a photo after he was "purged", but the Soviet Union in general is full of these instances. More lightheartedly, Disney supposedly (though this seems to be subject to some debate) has airbrushed a number of photographs of Walt Disney to remove cigarettes from them. And perhaps most famously of all, Han only shot first if you were born before 1997.
  - 2y ago

enragedcacti 2y ago

> This tool allows you to capture a moment in time as you wish it happened, not as it actually happened. > the Clean Up tool gives users a way to remove distracting elements while staying true to the moment as they intended to capture it. idk, seems like the author described it the exact same way Apple does in their marketing copy. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/10/apple-intelligence-is-available-today-on-iphone-ipad-and-mac/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2024/10/apple-intelligence-is...

InvisibleUp 2y ago

I’d agree with your assessment of what Apple considers a photograph if I could turn off the post-processing that turns everything in the background into a smeary, blobby mess.

xena 2y ago
https://halide.cam/ https://halide.cam/ has Process Zero, which is about as close as you can get to straight off the sensor. Here's a photo I took with it: https://bsky.app/profile/xeiaso.net/post/3le3dd53zlk2c https://bsky.app/profile/xeiaso.net/post/3le3dd53zlk2c Easily the best camera app I've ever purchased. It makes me not want to pull out my mirrorless camera as much to get decent photos.
dcrazy 2y ago
That’s Portrait Mode. You only get that if you change from Photo mode to Portrait mode in the Camera app, or in later OSes by retroactively applying a Portrait effect in Edit mode. The addition of the latter feature also made it possible to retroactively remove the Portrait Mode effect from a photo, as long as you have the actual source asset and not a rendered JPEG/HEIC with the effect baked in.
gnopgnip 2y ago
If you mean the fake bokeh that blurs the background, turn off portrait mode. You can toggle "pro raw" in the default camera app. It captures a lot more information from the sensor. The files are a lot larger, it isn't throwing away information that isn't visible like in the shadows. This gives you more flexibility like changing color balance and exposure after the fact because of that extra data. But there is still some sharpening and post processing. You can use the camera app inside lightroom or "procamera" or other apps and take raw photos, where it records all of the sensor data without any post processing. Most people don't want this, you need to develop the images using software like lightroom to look good.

hawkjo 2y ago

This comment and the article they came from are a perfect snapshot of this moment. The fact that major players at each company have made public statements about the philosophical definition of what a photo is. I mean, of course they have. Of course. The times be wild.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]