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> Duopoly exists due to excessive regulation. Or some things are simply hard.

by MattGaiser 2y ago

abhayhegde 2y ago
Counterpoint: VISA and Mastercard.
- MattGaiser 2y ago
  The tech isn’t too hard. Getting billions across many different cultures to trust you with money is hard. They have numerous competitors, from American Express to PayPal. Even crypto could be a competitor. But they have trust problems, are too expensive, or provide no benefit to the purchasers. Credit cards in general are hard to disrupt as they pay a substantial kickback to the people who would otherwise be adopters of a new technology. As a high income, technologically savvy, globally mobile person, I am who a payment company would need to flip to drive broad global payment adoption. Unfortunately for them, credit cards are enormously valuable to me as is due to points and perks.
  - nradov 2y ago
    The legal compliance issues are probably just as hard as establishing trust.
    - MattGaiser 2y ago
      No, as the alternatives are in the market, so they have solved the compliance issues (sufficiently at least to avoid getting shut down). It is simply that they cannot get customers onboard.
    - nothercastle 2y ago
      The trust is also hard because it are selling at 30-100 year product. If your company goes bankrupt than they buyer might be forced to spend a lot of money replacing the elevator. Think fiskar electric cars except much more expensive and harder to replace.
  - abhayhegde 2y ago
    In other words, excessive regulation makes the trustworthiness hard.
    - MattGaiser 2y ago
      How does excess regulation keep PayPal from being a payment alternative? People can currently use PayPal to do business if they wish. You could take PayPal transfers at a grocery store. There is a case for regulation blocking crypto in some areas, but certainly not all and it still has yet to find meaningful traction as a payment processing mechanism.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      With credit cards it is more so lack of regulation. With low enough caps on fees it is lot less of an problem. Still should mandate them to serve all customers. And only kick them out after certain fraud threshold.
nothercastle 2y ago
Many companies are capable of doing hard but navigating vague and complex regulations requires deep pockets and institutional connections. In theory the regulations are the same for everyone but because they are often vague regulators have broad interpretation powers. Established players have favorable agreements in place with regulators on how to interpret these regulations that new entrants would not and would have to spend years negotiating these rules. That requires really deep pockets like uber level capital.
- bluGill 2y ago
  It isn't that nobody else can it is that navigating them the first time costs alot and so you need to do many to ammortize the costs over. Cars are very regulated but humans buy enough that you can start a new company anyway.

> Duopoly exists due to excessive regulation. Or some things are simply hard.

abhayhegde 2y ago

Counterpoint: VISA and Mastercard.

MattGaiser 2y ago
The tech isn’t too hard. Getting billions across many different cultures to trust you with money is hard. They have numerous competitors, from American Express to PayPal. Even crypto could be a competitor. But they have trust problems, are too expensive, or provide no benefit to the purchasers. Credit cards in general are hard to disrupt as they pay a substantial kickback to the people who would otherwise be adopters of a new technology. As a high income, technologically savvy, globally mobile person, I am who a payment company would need to flip to drive broad global payment adoption. Unfortunately for them, credit cards are enormously valuable to me as is due to points and perks.
- nradov 2y ago
  The legal compliance issues are probably just as hard as establishing trust.
  - MattGaiser 2y ago
    No, as the alternatives are in the market, so they have solved the compliance issues (sufficiently at least to avoid getting shut down). It is simply that they cannot get customers onboard.
  - nothercastle 2y ago
    The trust is also hard because it are selling at 30-100 year product. If your company goes bankrupt than they buyer might be forced to spend a lot of money replacing the elevator. Think fiskar electric cars except much more expensive and harder to replace.
- abhayhegde 2y ago
  In other words, excessive regulation makes the trustworthiness hard.
  - MattGaiser 2y ago
    How does excess regulation keep PayPal from being a payment alternative? People can currently use PayPal to do business if they wish. You could take PayPal transfers at a grocery store. There is a case for regulation blocking crypto in some areas, but certainly not all and it still has yet to find meaningful traction as a payment processing mechanism.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    With credit cards it is more so lack of regulation. With low enough caps on fees it is lot less of an problem. Still should mandate them to serve all customers. And only kick them out after certain fraud threshold.

nothercastle 2y ago

Many companies are capable of doing hard but navigating vague and complex regulations requires deep pockets and institutional connections. In theory the regulations are the same for everyone but because they are often vague regulators have broad interpretation powers. Established players have favorable agreements in place with regulators on how to interpret these regulations that new entrants would not and would have to spend years negotiating these rules. That requires really deep pockets like uber level capital.

bluGill 2y ago
It isn't that nobody else can it is that navigating them the first time costs alot and so you need to do many to ammortize the costs over. Cars are very regulated but humans buy enough that you can start a new company anyway.