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Your most probably on one anyway for other reasons, and its not like you are going on a list of people who want to subvert the Government and carry out terroris

Your most probably on one anyway for other reasons, and its not like you are going on a list of people who want to subvert the Government and carry out terrorist suicide missions, you are just donating to a cause that you find worthwhile (truth, freedom and democracy?), I doubt that you have to worry about a night time snatch and stress positions just yet.

pessimizer 14y ago
Not tomorrow, but what about 10 years from now?
- sitkack 14y ago
  That is what the Utah DC is for. But if we really believe that, and we believe the nation will further slide in a fascist state then we probably shouldn't say _anything_ online or over the phone.
  - pessimizer 14y ago
    I really believe that it's a possibility. Who would have thought that Obama would bring back the Espionage Act? We used to imprison people for publicly supporting Communism and/or publicly denouncing wars, and the courts upheld it. The Overton Window makes people really complacent in a pretty rapidly changing world, and the civil liberties regressions by Bush that are being institutionalized and explicitly legalized by Obama could give a future Santorum (or his ilk's) administration a bunch of scary options. In the future, we may regret having had conversations like this on the internet or over the phone. I'm taking that risk. edit: sentence fragment edit - relevant: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441
    - sitkack 14y ago
      Obama is making us less of a hypocrite. If we codify our behavior as lawful everything is legit, no? We need to encourage people to speak their mind. Can everyone be an enemy of the state? There is strength and anonymity in many voices, many who would not speak, do. I suppose they could automate the persecution of dissidents by denying them services or charging them more taxes. That way there wouldn't be a labor shortage for actually carrying out persecution. Can you cite people being jailed for supporting Communism or denouncing wars under Obama.
      - pessimizer 14y ago
        Never happened under Obama. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. It happened in the US under the same law - the Espionage Act - that Obama has used more than every other US President combined in his war on whistleblowers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/02/27/is_the_obama_administration_abusing_the_espionage_act http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/02/27/is_the_obama_...
        sitkack 14y ago
        Not that he hasn't done shitty stuff, assassinations of american citizens, torture of Bradley Manning and GitMo is still open.
    - adavies42 14y ago
      > Who would have thought that Obama would bring back the Espionage Act? liberals politicians increase police power, conservative politicians increase social spending. their bases let them get away with it because they're "on their side", and their opposition let them get away with it because it's what they wanted anyway.
    - adavies42 14y ago
      > We used to imprison people for publicly supporting Communism and/or publicly denouncing wars also note that the leadership in doing this came from Lincoln and Wilson....
    - dasil003 14y ago
      I'm not naive, I realize Obama is more of a politician than a leader, but this stuff really stinks like someone else is running the show behind the scenes.

pessimizer 14y ago

Not tomorrow, but what about 10 years from now?

sitkack 14y ago
That is what the Utah DC is for. But if we really believe that, and we believe the nation will further slide in a fascist state then we probably shouldn't say _anything_ online or over the phone.
- pessimizer 14y ago
  I really believe that it's a possibility. Who would have thought that Obama would bring back the Espionage Act? We used to imprison people for publicly supporting Communism and/or publicly denouncing wars, and the courts upheld it. The Overton Window makes people really complacent in a pretty rapidly changing world, and the civil liberties regressions by Bush that are being institutionalized and explicitly legalized by Obama could give a future Santorum (or his ilk's) administration a bunch of scary options. In the future, we may regret having had conversations like this on the internet or over the phone. I'm taking that risk. edit: sentence fragment edit - relevant: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441
  - sitkack 14y ago
    Obama is making us less of a hypocrite. If we codify our behavior as lawful everything is legit, no? We need to encourage people to speak their mind. Can everyone be an enemy of the state? There is strength and anonymity in many voices, many who would not speak, do. I suppose they could automate the persecution of dissidents by denying them services or charging them more taxes. That way there wouldn't be a labor shortage for actually carrying out persecution. Can you cite people being jailed for supporting Communism or denouncing wars under Obama.
    - pessimizer 14y ago
      Never happened under Obama. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. It happened in the US under the same law - the Espionage Act - that Obama has used more than every other US President combined in his war on whistleblowers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schenck_v._United_States http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/02/27/is_the_obama_administration_abusing_the_espionage_act http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/02/27/is_the_obama_...
      - sitkack 14y ago
        Not that he hasn't done shitty stuff, assassinations of american citizens, torture of Bradley Manning and GitMo is still open.
  - adavies42 14y ago
    > Who would have thought that Obama would bring back the Espionage Act? liberals politicians increase police power, conservative politicians increase social spending. their bases let them get away with it because they're "on their side", and their opposition let them get away with it because it's what they wanted anyway.
  - adavies42 14y ago
    > We used to imprison people for publicly supporting Communism and/or publicly denouncing wars also note that the leadership in doing this came from Lincoln and Wilson....
  - dasil003 14y ago
    I'm not naive, I realize Obama is more of a politician than a leader, but this stuff really stinks like someone else is running the show behind the scenes.