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I really want to donate but honestly feel like I'll be put on a U.S. Government list somewhere of nefarious individuals who support terrorism which might have c
by flyosity 14y ago
I really want to donate but honestly feel like I'll be put on a U.S. Government list somewhere of nefarious individuals who support terrorism which might have consequences in the future. Anyone else feel that too? I should just mail them some cash anonymously.
- sage_joch 14y ago"which might have consequences in the future" If a secret set of rules is making you less likely to express your viewpoints (and support certain press organizations), that is already a consequence. It's unfortunate that rational people don't feel free to exercise their freedom in today's United States.
- dusing 14y agoRational people do feel free to express their views in today's United States.
- Andrew_Quentin 14y agoHe said freedoms, not views.
- gavinlynch 14y agoRational people do feel free to express their freedoms in today's United States.
- gavinlynch 14y agohilarious that this gets a downvote. Apparently commenters here feel that I must be irrational, because I feel free to express my freedoms every single day in the US without repudiation. I'd love to hear the personal stories of those who downvoted me for how they know that no rational human being in American can express their freedoms.
- Andrew_Quentin 14y agoWell, not donating to an organisation because you fear that you may be put on some government watchlist is the opposite of exercising ones freedom in a free land.
- simonb 14y agoThere is always bitcoin.
- gahahaha 14y agoNot at all. With bitcoin every transaction is publicly logged, and anyone can see the flow of Bitcoins from address to address. Alone, this information can't identify anyone because the addresses are just random numbers. However, if any of the addresses in a transaction's past or future can be tied to an actual identity, it might be possible to work from that point and figure out who owns all of the other addresses. This identity information might come from network analysis, surveillance, or just Googling the address. So - Bitcoin won't keep you anonymous. Edit: Sorry - I was reading your comment in the context of the previous commenter worrying about ending up on a government watch list.
- simonb 14y agoSure, but if you are concerned about privacy/surveillance, you use a new (one-time) address for each transaction.
- nodata 14y ago+1 Self censorship at work. And your real name is in your profile.
- flyosity 14y agoDamnit!
- Emouri 14y agoYeah I felt exactly the same way. I chose to donate anyways, but it was a close thing.
- metatronscube 14y agoYour most probably on one anyway for other reasons, and its not like you are going on a list of people who want to subvert the Government and carry out terrorist suicide missions, you are just donating to a cause that you find worthwhile (truth, freedom and democracy?), I doubt that you have to worry about a night time snatch and stress positions just yet.
- pessimizer 14y agoNot tomorrow, but what about 10 years from now?
- sitkack 14y agoThat is what the Utah DC is for. But if we really believe that, and we believe the nation will further slide in a fascist state then we probably shouldn't say _anything_ online or over the phone.
- pessimizer 14y agoI really believe that it's a possibility. Who would have thought that Obama would bring back the Espionage Act? We used to imprison people for publicly supporting Communism and/or publicly denouncing wars, and the courts upheld it. The Overton Window makes people really complacent in a pretty rapidly changing world, and the civil liberties regressions by Bush that are being institutionalized and explicitly legalized by Obama could give a future Santorum (or his ilk's) administration a bunch of scary options. In the future, we may regret having had conversations like this on the internet or over the phone. I'm taking that risk. edit: sentence fragment edit - relevant: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441
- sitkack 14y agoObama is making us less of a hypocrite. If we codify our behavior as lawful everything is legit, no? We need to encourage people to speak their mind. Can everyone be an enemy of the state? There is strength and anonymity in many voices, many who would not speak, do. I suppose they could automate the persecution of dissidents by denying them services or charging them more taxes. That way there wouldn't be a labor shortage for actually carrying out persecution. Can you cite people being jailed for supporting Communism or denouncing wars under Obama.
- SilasX 14y agoTwo words: Bitcoin.
- mark_up 14y agoTwo?
- mmaunder 14y agoYou risk losing your security clearance if you're in the US military or a contractor with clearance like Raytheon for example. You also probably won't get clearance if you ever apply for it in future if it's found out. http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/05/u-s-military-bans-personnel-from-visiting-wikileaks-pentagon-asks-site-to-do-the-right-thing/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/05/u-s-military-bans-personnel...
- Daniel_Newby 14y agoSecurity clearance is mostly about deception and breach of faith, not supporting the right politics. If you donate $500 to Satan, no big deal. If they ask you about the donation and you lie, no clearance.
- citricsquid 14y agoWouldn't it be argued that if you support Wikileaks you're pro information leaking and therefore there's an indication that if you're given access to "secret" information that doesn't match your views you're inclined to leak it? Surely that is enough to warrant no access.
- Daniel_Newby 14y agoThe argument could be used about a subscription to the Washington Post, or support of the State Department.
- wahsd 14y agoThe government and it's corporate henchmen are all to quick to prove the necessity for resources like wikileaks by ignoring the law that all the "secret" information was immediately declassified by being in the public domain once it hit the intertubes. Their lawyers know that, the degenerate brass has been told that, yet they still go on and try to scare people with threats to their livelihood. Why? Because they don't want people reading the dirty laundry and just how reprehensible it is and they want to control. Reading or accessing wikileaks cannot threaten your security clearance. As stated, it is the possibility of being compromised that will threaten your clearance. The more you are scared of accessing wikileaks because you are not aware and assertive of your rights, the more you could be compromised by blackmail, which is the threat. It's mostly not what you do, but whether it can be leveraged for manipulation that threatens clearances.
- batgaijin 14y agoI donated because fear is the mind killer.
- mqqq 14y agoJust buy a visa gift card with cash and donate with it. Completely anonymous.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- ipt 14y agoWould purchasing a Visa prepaid card and using that to donate be suitably anonymous (or do you need ID to buy one of those?)
- jlgreco 14y agoPrepaid cards (bought in the US anyway) need a SSN before they work online.
- felipemnoa 14y agoI assume he is talking about Visa/Mastercard gift cards. If so then they do not need an SSN number to work online. At least here in the USA. You can pretty much enter whatever information you want.
- kamjam 14y agoThey don't in the UK either, sometimes you need to register them (and supply the same info when purchasing) but you can put in whatever info you want there...
- jlgreco 14y agoHmm, the last time I tried one, bought with cash at a 7-11, I needed to go on their website. and enter a lot of information before I could use it online. Are the gift-cards something else? Maybe I am just recalling incorrectly and SSN wasn't one of the things they asked.
- droithomme 14y agoInteresting question. It seems you can buy them with cash from local places like Dollar Stores and such, and use for in person purchases with no id. But on line verification uses your provided name, billing address and phone number as validation it is a legit purchase and not a stolen card. So you have to register the card before online use with this information. You are not required though to provide true information here, it just needs to be information that matches what you give when you make the purchase. I could find no reference that SSNs are required, but perhaps some issuers require it. That would be important to know which one since most states allow false names as long as not used for fraud, but there's now a federal law that makes using an incorrect SSN a crime.
- rdtsc 14y agoSince your name is in your profile. Let me donate in your name then, it will put your name on the list, you'll know it is there, and you won't worry about it from now on, just keep donating. </kidding> But on a serious note. Besides 'terrorists winning' in this game. You know who else won? Every little vindictive pest that you could run into in your daily life. Your neighbor hates your lawn? -- He can report your for suspicious behavior or just donate $5 to Wikileaks in your name. You got a bigger bonus than your co-worker? He puts a nasty comment about the president on a liberal forum somewhere. Possibilities for abuse abound. Once the collection of data has been enabled, data will be siphoned through. It could be decades before a court case, a new employment opportunity or overseas travel all of the sudden will trigger a search and will open that archived file and all this stuff will be there. No way to correct it. You would have forgotten about that one incident with your neighbor 20 years ago, but it will be there. What I fear will happen is that one of the triggers to open and inspect that file will be you participating in any kind of protest. It will be a Constitutionally legal thing to do. However, once you do it, you end up on a list, and now that 'ol file gets opened again and all these things from the past start appearing. You get pulled for random searches in airport. You miss every single flight you book. Every time you enter the country you get interrogated for an hour. All your electronic devices get confiscated. Basically, once the government is acting irrationally it opens the door for others to exploit that -- angry neighbors, scorned lover, upset employees. How do I know? This is what happened in the Soviet Union. It was for a while common for neighbor to denounce each other for 'anti-Soviet' activities, if they didn't get along. In the best case and best times, those get ignored, in the worst time, whole families disappeared overnight.
- pnathan 14y agoOne profound concern I have is for "denouncing for terrorist activities" to become a common thing in the US as a way of dealing with unpleasant others.
- mcguire 14y agoHmm. I was going to get a set of truck nuts for his new Yukon, but this might be even more fun.... "This is what happened in the Soviet Union." Be careful when you're choosing your enemies. You become them.
- eevilspock 14y agoI think the Hacker Community's opposition or support for WikiLeaks may decide whether it survives. In that vein I'm polling HN users: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4261481 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4261481. Please participate.
- kamjam 14y agoYou're already on a government watch list so donate away! :) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4259441
- sitkack 14y agoJust donated 50 euro to wikileaks and 50 lbs to Assange.
- lucian1900 14y agolb is the measure of weight gbp is the currency. I know, it's confusing that they're both spelled "pound".
- cgag 14y agoI'm sure it puts you on a list, but I'd rather leave the US if any consequences come from it than just not donate.
- redthrowaway 14y agohttp://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#dbitcoin http://shop.wikileaks.org/donate#dbitcoin
- pinko 14y agoGlenn Greenwald has written some excellent stuff on exactly this: http://www.salon.com/2011/01/10/fear_12/ http://www.salon.com/2011/01/10/fear_12/