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How does this idea of an imamate vision inform your view on the Ansar Allah treatment of the Hadi government? Why has the movement assembled a sort of unity gov

by cess11 2y ago

How does this idea of an imamate vision inform your view on the Ansar Allah treatment of the Hadi government? Why has the movement assembled a sort of unity government now? How come they've made deals with and stopped fighting some sunni salafi militant groups? Why have they recruited fighters much more broadly than along sectarian lines? What the saudis, americans and british have done in Yemen is much worse than what the Ansar Allah has done. They're repressive for sure and they'll likely never agree with me on issues like queer people, but that's not unexpected after large amounts of colonial and later genocidal violence, it tends to see to it that only the hardest, least compromising people can survive and rise to leadership positions. The yemeni army under the Sana'a government has managed to drive away US ships, so they very much try to kill americans that are there to protect US occupation and genocide. Eventually they'll likely get good at it, like they got good at building mobile radar systems and taking down MQ-9 drones.

tptacek 2y ago
I wrote a long comment here but I don't think detail is helping. So: * There is no unified government of Yemen, no central organization controls all Yemeni territory, Ansar Allah continues to fight for territorial control, particularly in Marib and around Taizz. * There are no Americans in Yemen for Ansar Allah to fight, there are no Israelis there to fight, and the British haven't been in Aden for over 50 years. * Ansar Allah adopted the Khomeinist "Death To America" chant to galvanize supporters for their Zaydi Rivalist movement, but their actual military targets are all Yemenis inside of Yemen. Far from unifying the different factions in the areas they control, they make government employees sign pledges to support the revival of the Imamate and its Sada caste system. (also: an MQ-9 is a slow-moving turboprop)
- kasey_junk 2y ago
  There have been lots of reports that Israel is ‘advising’ the UAE in building their airbase in Socotra. Though I’ve not seen any admission of it outside of conservative Israeli or anti-Israeli media. The White House told Congress of boots on the ground in Yemen about a year ago (but the DoD walked that back). I’d probably not try to argue there are no Israeli or American intelligence or military officers in Yemen. Whether they are in range of Ansar Allah or qualify as an occupation force is probably a semantic argument where each side can reasonably claim honesty.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    I don't think Socotra is salient to anything happening inside Yemen. I'm pretty confident Ansar Allah isn't fighting Americans and Israelis! Or, for the last several years, for that matter, Saudis or Emiratis.
    - underdeserver 2y ago
      Well, they've been firing ballistic missiles multiple times a week at Tel Aviv for a few weeks now.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        They've been shooting at ships in the Red Sea for the last year, too. I'm sure whatever missiles Iran gives them, they'll be happy to shoot off, the same way they're happy to launch QF SA-67s at American drones. But their foot soldiers are busy inside Yemen, killing Yemenis.
        underdeserver 2y ago
        Agreed on both counts. I'm just saying there's a bit of a difference between shooting at a crew of 15 sailors once in a while, and sending a million+ civilians sleeping in their beds to bomb shelters (and destroying an elementary school). https://www.timesofisrael.com/lucky-there-were-no-children-school-near-tel-aviv-ravaged-by-houthi-missile-attack/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/lucky-there-were-no-children-s...
        tptacek 2y ago
        You're right. I'm fixated on the idea of Ansar Allah recruiting foot soldiers to fight America (or whatever); just: that's not why they recruit foot soldiers. Thanks to both of you for the clarity.
  - wolf550e 2y ago
    Please, I am very interested to know how the side that reasonably claims honesty explains how parts of Yemen are occupied by Israel. The presence of Mossad spies who I have no knowledge of but I will just assume exist and are trying to find out where the Houthi leadership is or where the ballistic missiles are, so Israel can eliminate them, are an occupying force?
- cess11 2y ago
  Sure, there's the secessionist Southern Movement supported by UAE, there's the Hadi government backed by the saudis, sometimes AQAP or its offshoots holds territory. You don't explain why Ansar Allah officials consistently claim they aren't a movement aiming for an imamate, why? The Saleh government used to say the Ansar Allah aimed for an imamate, but now Saleh and Islah are mostly allied with them. Did Saleh change his mind and now wants the imamate revival? Has the Islah party converted to zaydism? There are quite a few americans in the Red Sea and probably the Gulf of Aden too. They see a lot of drones and other projectiles coming their way. The Ansar Allah has also fought, rather efficiently, Janjaweed soldiers employed by their neighbours. They also attack Israel, mainly what's currently known as Eilat and Tel Aviv. Yes, it's a repressive movement but it's pretty clear they at times militarily engage distinctly foreign troops. Since they have sunni allies they clearly aren't fanatically sectarian either. It's likely they learned a lot from Hezbollah, which typically has allied with the christian fringe in Lebanon. I find it very hard to explain the decisions and policies of the Ansar Allah without seeing them through an anticolonial and antiimperialist lens. "Death to America" isn't a specifically khomeinist slogan, though Khomeini did a lot to popularise it. The Ansar Allah expands on it, and for a mainly sunni hating movement it's surprising it doesn't mention sunnis, wouldn't you say? Could you share a facsimile of such a pledge or similar source? I find Isa Blumi's account quite well written: https://www.ucpress.edu/books/destroying-yemen/paper https://www.ucpress.edu/books/destroying-yemen/paper
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Sure: https://www.saba.ye/storage/files/blog/1667842489_pTyQTA.pdf https://www.saba.ye/storage/files/blog/1667842489_pTyQTA.pdf You'll find 4o can translate this just fine, though several articles have also been written about it based on human translations. I'm not so much interested in arguing with you about whether Ansar Allah seeks the revival of the Zaydi Imamate; this is pretty basic stuff. Your own source discusses it, but also: I'm not sure you can read any history of Ansar Allah, the Houthi family, Believing Youth, the Sa'da vs. Sanaa conflict, etc. without learning about this. When you read Blumi's account, keep in mind: the Zaydis are a minority in Yemen (I think they're even a minority in North Yemen.) The body count inside of Yemen is into the hundreds of thousands. One super useful source on this is ACLED, which tracks raw conflict events around the world; they have an "Explorer" on their site that breaks battles and fatalities down by region and time (for lots of countries, not just Yemen). Dig into that, come back, and tell me the Houthis are fighting America and Israel.

by cess11 2y ago

tptacek 2y ago

I wrote a long comment here but I don't think detail is helping. So: * There is no unified government of Yemen, no central organization controls all Yemeni territory, Ansar Allah continues to fight for territorial control, particularly in Marib and around Taizz. * There are no Americans in Yemen for Ansar Allah to fight, there are no Israelis there to fight, and the British haven't been in Aden for over 50 years. * Ansar Allah adopted the Khomeinist "Death To America" chant to galvanize supporters for their Zaydi Rivalist movement, but their actual military targets are all Yemenis inside of Yemen. Far from unifying the different factions in the areas they control, they make government employees sign pledges to support the revival of the Imamate and its Sada caste system. (also: an MQ-9 is a slow-moving turboprop)

kasey_junk 2y ago
There have been lots of reports that Israel is ‘advising’ the UAE in building their airbase in Socotra. Though I’ve not seen any admission of it outside of conservative Israeli or anti-Israeli media. The White House told Congress of boots on the ground in Yemen about a year ago (but the DoD walked that back). I’d probably not try to argue there are no Israeli or American intelligence or military officers in Yemen. Whether they are in range of Ansar Allah or qualify as an occupation force is probably a semantic argument where each side can reasonably claim honesty.
- tptacek 2y ago
  I don't think Socotra is salient to anything happening inside Yemen. I'm pretty confident Ansar Allah isn't fighting Americans and Israelis! Or, for the last several years, for that matter, Saudis or Emiratis.
  - underdeserver 2y ago
    Well, they've been firing ballistic missiles multiple times a week at Tel Aviv for a few weeks now.
    - tptacek 2y ago
      They've been shooting at ships in the Red Sea for the last year, too. I'm sure whatever missiles Iran gives them, they'll be happy to shoot off, the same way they're happy to launch QF SA-67s at American drones. But their foot soldiers are busy inside Yemen, killing Yemenis.
      - underdeserver 2y ago
        Agreed on both counts. I'm just saying there's a bit of a difference between shooting at a crew of 15 sailors once in a while, and sending a million+ civilians sleeping in their beds to bomb shelters (and destroying an elementary school). https://www.timesofisrael.com/lucky-there-were-no-children-school-near-tel-aviv-ravaged-by-houthi-missile-attack/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/lucky-there-were-no-children-s...
        tptacek 2y ago
        You're right. I'm fixated on the idea of Ansar Allah recruiting foot soldiers to fight America (or whatever); just: that's not why they recruit foot soldiers. Thanks to both of you for the clarity.
- wolf550e 2y ago
  Please, I am very interested to know how the side that reasonably claims honesty explains how parts of Yemen are occupied by Israel. The presence of Mossad spies who I have no knowledge of but I will just assume exist and are trying to find out where the Houthi leadership is or where the ballistic missiles are, so Israel can eliminate them, are an occupying force?
cess11 2y ago
Sure, there's the secessionist Southern Movement supported by UAE, there's the Hadi government backed by the saudis, sometimes AQAP or its offshoots holds territory. You don't explain why Ansar Allah officials consistently claim they aren't a movement aiming for an imamate, why? The Saleh government used to say the Ansar Allah aimed for an imamate, but now Saleh and Islah are mostly allied with them. Did Saleh change his mind and now wants the imamate revival? Has the Islah party converted to zaydism? There are quite a few americans in the Red Sea and probably the Gulf of Aden too. They see a lot of drones and other projectiles coming their way. The Ansar Allah has also fought, rather efficiently, Janjaweed soldiers employed by their neighbours. They also attack Israel, mainly what's currently known as Eilat and Tel Aviv. Yes, it's a repressive movement but it's pretty clear they at times militarily engage distinctly foreign troops. Since they have sunni allies they clearly aren't fanatically sectarian either. It's likely they learned a lot from Hezbollah, which typically has allied with the christian fringe in Lebanon. I find it very hard to explain the decisions and policies of the Ansar Allah without seeing them through an anticolonial and antiimperialist lens. "Death to America" isn't a specifically khomeinist slogan, though Khomeini did a lot to popularise it. The Ansar Allah expands on it, and for a mainly sunni hating movement it's surprising it doesn't mention sunnis, wouldn't you say? Could you share a facsimile of such a pledge or similar source? I find Isa Blumi's account quite well written: https://www.ucpress.edu/books/destroying-yemen/paper https://www.ucpress.edu/books/destroying-yemen/paper
- tptacek 2y ago
  Sure: https://www.saba.ye/storage/files/blog/1667842489_pTyQTA.pdf https://www.saba.ye/storage/files/blog/1667842489_pTyQTA.pdf You'll find 4o can translate this just fine, though several articles have also been written about it based on human translations. I'm not so much interested in arguing with you about whether Ansar Allah seeks the revival of the Zaydi Imamate; this is pretty basic stuff. Your own source discusses it, but also: I'm not sure you can read any history of Ansar Allah, the Houthi family, Believing Youth, the Sa'da vs. Sanaa conflict, etc. without learning about this. When you read Blumi's account, keep in mind: the Zaydis are a minority in Yemen (I think they're even a minority in North Yemen.) The body count inside of Yemen is into the hundreds of thousands. One super useful source on this is ACLED, which tracks raw conflict events around the world; they have an "Explorer" on their site that breaks battles and fatalities down by region and time (for lots of countries, not just Yemen). Dig into that, come back, and tell me the Houthis are fighting America and Israel.