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This is the reality of building your life around sport—-there’s basically no money in it unless you’re on the extreme edge. I wish people would stop dumping the

by a2tech 2y ago

This is the reality of building your life around sport—-there’s basically no money in it unless you’re on the extreme edge. I wish people would stop dumping their entire life’s energy into chasing it—-do something more useful like stamping parts out in a factory. Olympic athletes are stunningly focused achievers—I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered.

floatrock 2y ago
Is this meant to be sarcasm? If we're comparing only stamping parts in a factory vs. pushing the human body to its limits, you probably ain't gonna make money in either. But one of them is going to be a far more satisfying way to live for the soul. We can talk about other things that matter, but there's probably less of that out there than you might think.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  I think the point was pretty simple: there's no reason that pursuing your Olympic dreams would be a way to make money. So feed your soul, but unless you come to it with money, be prepared to find another way to feed your wallet.
- gruez 2y ago
  >If we're comparing only stamping parts in a factory vs. pushing the human body to its limits, you probably ain't gonna make money in either. But one of them is going to be a far more satisfying way to live for the soul. You can't eat "more satisfying way to live for the soul", and if you can't convince people to sponsor your endeavors, then you'll have to get a job that produce goods/services people are willing to pay for, like most other people.
PapstJL4U 2y ago
If you don't put in the energy and drive, someone else will and someone else will be good enough to make money of their drive and energy. It's although very hard to just find something else, that gives you the same satisfaction as your favourite "past-time" - the only job that is as good as doing sport, is sport as a job.
electrozav 2y ago
I assure you this motivation does not exist in a vacuum, and many will quite rightly find achievement more important than generating capital for someone else.
kgilpin 2y ago
Sports is entertainment. It inspires people and brings joy. It brings people together. It sets positive examples of the rewards that can come from consistent effort and teamwork. Athletes are people making the most of the gifts they’ve been given. This is all laudable.
- EA-3167 2y ago
  It certainly shows how much more rewarding it is to work for the IOC, a government, or a corporation than it is to be an Olympian. It shows that being genetically gifted is the primary metric of success in sports (I don't care how hard you work, you aren't ever out-swimming Michael Phelps), and a lot of things bring people together that don't cost $10 billion, most of which is funneled into a bunch of hidden pockets.
- throw678937 2y ago
  To me there's something more than just entertainment in the idea of sport, of finding the limits of the human body and will. It's almost like art—it's evidence of human flourishing and it should appear as one of the final products of a successful society.
- tomjen3 2y ago
  That can certainly be the case, although usually I find that athletes are not the kind of people who should be considered inspirational. But on the other hand, if you were to go watch a launch from SpaceX, You will find that there's already a crowd being inspired, experiencing joy, and it absolutely brings people together. So why not work more on that and less on sports?
  - NickC25 2y ago
    >But on the other hand, if you were to go watch a launch from SpaceX, You will find that there's already a crowd being inspired, experiencing joy, and it absolutely brings people together. So why not work more on that and less on sports? You go find me a Space X launch in some of the countries that produce, say, top footballers. In those countries, then go find me a robust educational infrastructure. You won't find the educational resources for one to become a top aerospace engineer or astrophysicist in say, Ghana or Mali. Sports are popular because enjoying them either by playing or watching doesn't require a ton of brain power. Let people enjoy what they want, who are you (or I) to judge?
yallpendantools 2y ago
> I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered. >> I'd love to see that energy and drive rewarded and respected by society like self-actualization mattered, not just the next paycheck. FTFY. Let's not be condescending to athletic pursuit. Is that drive and passion really any different to the fuel of many a start-up hustler who, when their funding ran out, didn't really manage to change the world, with neither disruptive business model nor novel technical developments to show for it? Are they really so different from publish-or-perish academics toiling on some obscure edge of human knowledge which is more likely to either be a dead end or a small brick on which a cathedral of a grand discovery will be built upon rather than being THE paradigm-shifting, theory-unifying, revolutionary thesis? Let's not be condescending to athletic pursuit because it's "just" entertainment. For a lot of people that struggle for faster, higher, stronger is inspiration, just as the early days of AirBnB/Facebook/Google is spoken of in hallowed tones in all-hands meetings, start-up mixers, and conferences, as motivation. Yeah, the ethics of the hustle might be questionable but fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, we all need heroes to look up to to some extent. If code can be poetry then surely so can a gutsy maneuver, a clever tactic, or a sonofabitching Hail Mary of an opportunistic play. Sports---just as science, math, business, or literature---are narratives of struggle, human ingenuity, and achievement.
syndicatedjelly 2y ago
This is one of the most dystopian and depressing things I've ever read. Quit your dreams and be productive for the Economy, peasant.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Is it equally dystopian if you consider that “be productive for the economy” is shorthand for and quite closely related to “do something of value for your fellow community members?” (Yes obviously there are extreme and very visible edge cases, but 99.999% of things normal people get paid to do is something valuable for their neighbor)
  - fulafel 2y ago
    A lot of things that your neighbor may like are still net negative (see the ongoing climate catastrophe and think about fossils production, air travel, etc).
  - lz400 2y ago
    The word valuable is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I don't personally consider the legions of people working in filling my eyeballs with advertisement valuable, but it certainly makes a lot of money.
  - ludston 2y ago
    Are athletes are working themselves to injury for the sake of improving the lives of the people around them? I do not see this. Athletes are competing for themselves: for fame, money and to feed their egos. I do not see the virtue in athletics given that being an entertainer, and being powerful and fit are intrinsically rewarding enough. I'd much rather we were funding musicians and artists, but only a fraction of funding goes to these in comparison to the behemoth that is sports.
    - zeroCalories 2y ago
      Athletes serve as aspirational figures that drive interest towards sports that keep people healthy. There is an ugly skinny-fat / fat-fat hatred of sports born from post-war folklore about jocks and nerds.
gregors 2y ago
>>>> there’s basically no money in it Who cares there's no money in it? Lots of things that have been corrupted with money are also hardly worth pursuing.
- vermilingua 2y ago
  If you’re asking the question, you clearly don’t have to worry about money. For most it’s a question of survival.
  - gregors 2y ago
    You clearly come from a country without a social safety net. Most people never make it to the olympics much less professional sports. So all the people who don't make it die? No they transition into other industries.Trying and failing is much better than never trying at all. Long live the dreamers and artists.
  - 52-6F-62 2y ago
    Ridiculous. Life is not about getting the most money. You can’t eat money, doesn’t matter how much you have. Someone, somewhere has to do work that makes less money for some other gain so that you can eat what you do. By that standard if survival means that we have to return to child sacrifice or something else so heinous then I guess engaging in anything but is also privileged. These people are pursuing the survival of their souls. If you lose that, you cannot regain it. And time is not an athlete’s friend. You can always make money. It’s not going anywhere.
- jalapenos 2y ago
  I know a poster who needs a few weeks working in a sulfur mine for a dollar a day to pull his head down to earth
AngryData 2y ago
Define "something that mattered", because over half the stuff posted on hackernews is a complete waste of time and effort if your only real metric is profitability. The vast majority of "hacking" in general is of negative financial value.
- timeon 2y ago
  > "something that mattered" Like decreasing quality of life for everybody through ad-tech.
- jalapenos 2y ago
  Absolutely savage
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Right but GP’s comment would apply if someone posted a complaint about “why is no one paying me a salary to build an ESP32 thermometer that tickles my feet when it gets below 80 outside?”
  - tsupiroti 2y ago
    Well, there are often threads lamenting that open source maintainers don't get paid more.
    - baq 2y ago
      And then cries of disgust and demands of professional services 24/7 for free because someone found a bug in your hobby project which turned out to be useful for some megacorp or VC funded startup.
- DontchaKnowit 2y ago
  Yeah and half the stuff that is of financial value is complete cancer on our society. Social media, advertising systems, etc etc.
- tomjen3 2y ago
mcphage 2y ago
> there’s basically no money in it unless you’re on the extreme edge These are Olympic athletes, they are on the extreme edge.
xyst 2y ago
[flagged]
insane_dreamer 2y ago
> I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered it matters to them; who cares whether it matters to you?
itake 2y ago
> Olympic athletes are stunningly focused achievers—I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered. Some of their focus comes from just being naturally talented at their activity. I am really focused on coding, b/c I have a natural affinity to working with computers, but that doesn't mean I can focus on gymnastics.
- ludston 2y ago
  People often like what they are good at, true, but people become good at things through work and practice. I am tired of the general attitude that somebody will either like something or dislike it after they give it a little try, when pretty much any performance art, be it programming, playing sport, drawing or learning an instrument comes front-loaded with hundreds of hours of practice before somebody can get good enough at it to properly enjoy it.
rwyinuse 2y ago
Most stuff that "matters" or is "useful" also pays next to nothing, or has been outsourced to China if you happen to live in the West. There's nothing useful to do for most of today's workforce in post-industrial societies, except things like nursing which are severely underpaid.
- nradov 2y ago
  Huh? Unemployment is low and median wages are up. Nursing might not be the highest paying job but they earn a median wage of $86k which is pretty good in most areas.
  - baq 2y ago
    Ah yes the end state of society is childless nurses working their assess of caring after way too many retired old people.
  - DrillShopper 2y ago
    > Nursing might not be the highest paying job but they earn a median wage of $86k which is pretty good in most areas. Oh darn that's good that nursing school is free then!/s
carlosjobim 2y ago
Are you per chance stamping parts out in a factory? The Soviet Union used to give the award "Hero of Socialist Labour" to top performers in the labour force, and public spaces everywhere had billboards celebrating local labour performers. Could you name any top labourer in your region, your country or the world? Any certain factory worker that comes to mind?
chrisandchris 2y ago
What a depressing comment. > I'd love to see that energy and drive [...] I'm a former professional athlete in a marginalized sports. Sadly never made it to Olympia. I learned that energy and drive by doing my sport, and I wasn't "born" with it (well, maybe with the genes, but it's something one has to learn IMHO). I think I am now what I am thanks to doing sports for more than 5 year as my main activity (in terms of invested time) and maybe 10 years as secondary activity. Money was always tight, and I was happy to leave my sport with a "black zero" on my bank account. I never did it for the money, but I'm happy to not ran into bankrupcty just for my dream. And that's what I hope is the minimum for every athlete.
- mvc 2y ago
  In all seriousness, "thankyou for your service". I'm an absolute middling athlete. In my 40s. Half a life spent at a desk. And then I picked up a bit of running/cycling as one does. And joined a local club, and became absolutely inspired by the people of all ages at the club entering competitions, doing big feats of endurance. Just for the love of the sport, or the thrill of achieving something difficult. I'm still a middling athlete but now one that makes sure to fit in a bit of exercise each week and continues to make solid progress. So even if you haven't won any medals, you've likely inspired someone into making changes for the better.

by a2tech 2y ago

floatrock 2y ago

Is this meant to be sarcasm? If we're comparing only stamping parts in a factory vs. pushing the human body to its limits, you probably ain't gonna make money in either. But one of them is going to be a far more satisfying way to live for the soul. We can talk about other things that matter, but there's probably less of that out there than you might think.

EA-3167 2y ago
I think the point was pretty simple: there's no reason that pursuing your Olympic dreams would be a way to make money. So feed your soul, but unless you come to it with money, be prepared to find another way to feed your wallet.
gruez 2y ago
>If we're comparing only stamping parts in a factory vs. pushing the human body to its limits, you probably ain't gonna make money in either. But one of them is going to be a far more satisfying way to live for the soul. You can't eat "more satisfying way to live for the soul", and if you can't convince people to sponsor your endeavors, then you'll have to get a job that produce goods/services people are willing to pay for, like most other people.

PapstJL4U 2y ago

If you don't put in the energy and drive, someone else will and someone else will be good enough to make money of their drive and energy. It's although very hard to just find something else, that gives you the same satisfaction as your favourite "past-time" - the only job that is as good as doing sport, is sport as a job.

electrozav 2y ago

I assure you this motivation does not exist in a vacuum, and many will quite rightly find achievement more important than generating capital for someone else.

kgilpin 2y ago

Sports is entertainment. It inspires people and brings joy. It brings people together. It sets positive examples of the rewards that can come from consistent effort and teamwork. Athletes are people making the most of the gifts they’ve been given. This is all laudable.

EA-3167 2y ago
It certainly shows how much more rewarding it is to work for the IOC, a government, or a corporation than it is to be an Olympian. It shows that being genetically gifted is the primary metric of success in sports (I don't care how hard you work, you aren't ever out-swimming Michael Phelps), and a lot of things bring people together that don't cost $10 billion, most of which is funneled into a bunch of hidden pockets.
throw678937 2y ago
To me there's something more than just entertainment in the idea of sport, of finding the limits of the human body and will. It's almost like art—it's evidence of human flourishing and it should appear as one of the final products of a successful society.
tomjen3 2y ago
That can certainly be the case, although usually I find that athletes are not the kind of people who should be considered inspirational. But on the other hand, if you were to go watch a launch from SpaceX, You will find that there's already a crowd being inspired, experiencing joy, and it absolutely brings people together. So why not work more on that and less on sports?
- NickC25 2y ago
  >But on the other hand, if you were to go watch a launch from SpaceX, You will find that there's already a crowd being inspired, experiencing joy, and it absolutely brings people together. So why not work more on that and less on sports? You go find me a Space X launch in some of the countries that produce, say, top footballers. In those countries, then go find me a robust educational infrastructure. You won't find the educational resources for one to become a top aerospace engineer or astrophysicist in say, Ghana or Mali. Sports are popular because enjoying them either by playing or watching doesn't require a ton of brain power. Let people enjoy what they want, who are you (or I) to judge?

yallpendantools 2y ago

> I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered. >> I'd love to see that energy and drive rewarded and respected by society like self-actualization mattered, not just the next paycheck. FTFY. Let's not be condescending to athletic pursuit. Is that drive and passion really any different to the fuel of many a start-up hustler who, when their funding ran out, didn't really manage to change the world, with neither disruptive business model nor novel technical developments to show for it? Are they really so different from publish-or-perish academics toiling on some obscure edge of human knowledge which is more likely to either be a dead end or a small brick on which a cathedral of a grand discovery will be built upon rather than being THE paradigm-shifting, theory-unifying, revolutionary thesis? Let's not be condescending to athletic pursuit because it's "just" entertainment. For a lot of people that struggle for faster, higher, stronger is inspiration, just as the early days of AirBnB/Facebook/Google is spoken of in hallowed tones in all-hands meetings, start-up mixers, and conferences, as motivation. Yeah, the ethics of the hustle might be questionable but fact of the matter is, at the end of the day, we all need heroes to look up to to some extent. If code can be poetry then surely so can a gutsy maneuver, a clever tactic, or a sonofabitching Hail Mary of an opportunistic play. Sports---just as science, math, business, or literature---are narratives of struggle, human ingenuity, and achievement.

syndicatedjelly 2y ago

This is one of the most dystopian and depressing things I've ever read. Quit your dreams and be productive for the Economy, peasant.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Is it equally dystopian if you consider that “be productive for the economy” is shorthand for and quite closely related to “do something of value for your fellow community members?” (Yes obviously there are extreme and very visible edge cases, but 99.999% of things normal people get paid to do is something valuable for their neighbor)
- fulafel 2y ago
  A lot of things that your neighbor may like are still net negative (see the ongoing climate catastrophe and think about fossils production, air travel, etc).
- lz400 2y ago
  The word valuable is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I don't personally consider the legions of people working in filling my eyeballs with advertisement valuable, but it certainly makes a lot of money.
- ludston 2y ago
  Are athletes are working themselves to injury for the sake of improving the lives of the people around them? I do not see this. Athletes are competing for themselves: for fame, money and to feed their egos. I do not see the virtue in athletics given that being an entertainer, and being powerful and fit are intrinsically rewarding enough. I'd much rather we were funding musicians and artists, but only a fraction of funding goes to these in comparison to the behemoth that is sports.
  - zeroCalories 2y ago
    Athletes serve as aspirational figures that drive interest towards sports that keep people healthy. There is an ugly skinny-fat / fat-fat hatred of sports born from post-war folklore about jocks and nerds.

gregors 2y ago

>>>> there’s basically no money in it Who cares there's no money in it? Lots of things that have been corrupted with money are also hardly worth pursuing.

vermilingua 2y ago
If you’re asking the question, you clearly don’t have to worry about money. For most it’s a question of survival.
- gregors 2y ago
  You clearly come from a country without a social safety net. Most people never make it to the olympics much less professional sports. So all the people who don't make it die? No they transition into other industries.Trying and failing is much better than never trying at all. Long live the dreamers and artists.
- 52-6F-62 2y ago
  Ridiculous. Life is not about getting the most money. You can’t eat money, doesn’t matter how much you have. Someone, somewhere has to do work that makes less money for some other gain so that you can eat what you do. By that standard if survival means that we have to return to child sacrifice or something else so heinous then I guess engaging in anything but is also privileged. These people are pursuing the survival of their souls. If you lose that, you cannot regain it. And time is not an athlete’s friend. You can always make money. It’s not going anywhere.
jalapenos 2y ago
I know a poster who needs a few weeks working in a sulfur mine for a dollar a day to pull his head down to earth

AngryData 2y ago

Define "something that mattered", because over half the stuff posted on hackernews is a complete waste of time and effort if your only real metric is profitability. The vast majority of "hacking" in general is of negative financial value.

timeon 2y ago
> "something that mattered" Like decreasing quality of life for everybody through ad-tech.
jalapenos 2y ago
Absolutely savage
llamaimperative 2y ago
Right but GP’s comment would apply if someone posted a complaint about “why is no one paying me a salary to build an ESP32 thermometer that tickles my feet when it gets below 80 outside?”
- tsupiroti 2y ago
  Well, there are often threads lamenting that open source maintainers don't get paid more.
  - baq 2y ago
    And then cries of disgust and demands of professional services 24/7 for free because someone found a bug in your hobby project which turned out to be useful for some megacorp or VC funded startup.
DontchaKnowit 2y ago
Yeah and half the stuff that is of financial value is complete cancer on our society. Social media, advertising systems, etc etc.
tomjen3 2y ago

mcphage 2y ago

> there’s basically no money in it unless you’re on the extreme edge These are Olympic athletes, they are on the extreme edge.

xyst 2y ago

[flagged]

insane_dreamer 2y ago

> I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered it matters to them; who cares whether it matters to you?

itake 2y ago

> Olympic athletes are stunningly focused achievers—I’d love to see that energy and drive applied to something that mattered. Some of their focus comes from just being naturally talented at their activity. I am really focused on coding, b/c I have a natural affinity to working with computers, but that doesn't mean I can focus on gymnastics.

ludston 2y ago
People often like what they are good at, true, but people become good at things through work and practice. I am tired of the general attitude that somebody will either like something or dislike it after they give it a little try, when pretty much any performance art, be it programming, playing sport, drawing or learning an instrument comes front-loaded with hundreds of hours of practice before somebody can get good enough at it to properly enjoy it.

rwyinuse 2y ago

Most stuff that "matters" or is "useful" also pays next to nothing, or has been outsourced to China if you happen to live in the West. There's nothing useful to do for most of today's workforce in post-industrial societies, except things like nursing which are severely underpaid.

nradov 2y ago
Huh? Unemployment is low and median wages are up. Nursing might not be the highest paying job but they earn a median wage of $86k which is pretty good in most areas.
- baq 2y ago
  Ah yes the end state of society is childless nurses working their assess of caring after way too many retired old people.
- DrillShopper 2y ago
  > Nursing might not be the highest paying job but they earn a median wage of $86k which is pretty good in most areas. Oh darn that's good that nursing school is free then!/s

carlosjobim 2y ago

Are you per chance stamping parts out in a factory? The Soviet Union used to give the award "Hero of Socialist Labour" to top performers in the labour force, and public spaces everywhere had billboards celebrating local labour performers. Could you name any top labourer in your region, your country or the world? Any certain factory worker that comes to mind?

chrisandchris 2y ago

What a depressing comment. > I'd love to see that energy and drive [...] I'm a former professional athlete in a marginalized sports. Sadly never made it to Olympia. I learned that energy and drive by doing my sport, and I wasn't "born" with it (well, maybe with the genes, but it's something one has to learn IMHO). I think I am now what I am thanks to doing sports for more than 5 year as my main activity (in terms of invested time) and maybe 10 years as secondary activity. Money was always tight, and I was happy to leave my sport with a "black zero" on my bank account. I never did it for the money, but I'm happy to not ran into bankrupcty just for my dream. And that's what I hope is the minimum for every athlete.

mvc 2y ago
In all seriousness, "thankyou for your service". I'm an absolute middling athlete. In my 40s. Half a life spent at a desk. And then I picked up a bit of running/cycling as one does. And joined a local club, and became absolutely inspired by the people of all ages at the club entering competitions, doing big feats of endurance. Just for the love of the sport, or the thrill of achieving something difficult. I'm still a middling athlete but now one that makes sure to fit in a bit of exercise each week and continues to make solid progress. So even if you haven't won any medals, you've likely inspired someone into making changes for the better.