4 ms·

The EUV light is produced by shooting a pulsed laser on tin droplets. You already lose most of the input power in the pulsed laser. Then only a fraction of the

by majoe 2y ago

The EUV light is produced by shooting a pulsed laser on tin droplets. You already lose most of the input power in the pulsed laser. Then only a fraction of the energy of the light hitting the tin is converted to EUV light with the correct wavelength. Finally the EUV light has to be focused on the mask through complicated optics, which is notoriously difficult for EUV light. I guess, there are other sources of inefficiencies, that I forgot.

thfuran 2y ago
Isn't it actually tin plasma?
DoctorOetker 2y ago
Is there a reason EUV labs don't collocate with synchrotron FEL lasers?
- aboardRat4 2y ago
  Yes. Nucleophobia. Same reason it's called "euv" and not "soft x-ray".
  - DoctorOetker 2y ago
    "because the bit flips would then already have infected your processor in the factory" ?
- cyberax 2y ago
  Indeed, synchrotron sources are considered to be a possible light source for lithography. China is especially interested in them, since they can be done with a homegrown technology: https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/chinas-synchrotron-euv-litho-light-source-is-no-sanctions-buster/ https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/chinas-synchrotron-euv-litho... From what I understand, tin-based sources are easier to work with because they are point-like. All the energy is produced from a tiny droplet. Synchrotron sources produce much wider beams, that need to be re-focused properly.
- SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
  Synchrotron FELs are already used, and their construction paid for due to their scientific uses. Building new ones would require new synchrotrons, which are more expensive than the crazy "hit molten tin drops with lasers to make a plasma" scheme the ASML machines use.
sgarland 2y ago
I’d just like to comment on how batshit insane the technology is. “We pulse lasers in sync with dispensing droplets of molten tin to produce light that doesn’t exist outside of stars, then we use mirrors with a sub-angstrom surface roughness to precisely direct it onto wafers.” Not to mention the fact that this is happening, IIRC, thousands of times per second, and the tool has to take the wafer’s topography into account to focus the beam. Honestly, EUV litho makes every other technology you could describe sound like child’s play.
- Fronzie 2y ago
  And the tin droplets are in vacuum, with contamination of the wafer being very critical to control.
  - leoc 2y ago
    This old article from 2013 was funny: https://web.archive.org/web/20240416175801/https://semiaccurate.com/2013/02/13/euv-moves-forward-two-steps-back-one/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240416175801/https://semiaccur...
- dylan604 2y ago
  The first time I read about this process, I was convinced aliens were involved. Seriously, it's one of those crazy pitch meeting things that sounds ridiculous so of course it was green lit. "So we fire this laser, pew pew, into a field of molten tin droplets, and bingbangflam, you get this flash of light. So what do you think?" Hold my beer. It's clearly some people that are very smart that can only be explained by aliens
- pjdesno 2y ago
  Roughly similar craziness: Disk drives mechanically position heads less than 1nm above the platter, with horizontal accuracy of significantly less than the 50nm track width, at a retail price of a few hundred $$ or less. 30 years ago I think you could have gotten any number of experts to explain why both EUV lithography and modern disk drives are impossible.

by majoe 2y ago

thfuran 2y ago

Isn't it actually tin plasma?

DoctorOetker 2y ago

Is there a reason EUV labs don't collocate with synchrotron FEL lasers?

aboardRat4 2y ago
Yes. Nucleophobia. Same reason it's called "euv" and not "soft x-ray".
- DoctorOetker 2y ago
  "because the bit flips would then already have infected your processor in the factory" ?
cyberax 2y ago
Indeed, synchrotron sources are considered to be a possible light source for lithography. China is especially interested in them, since they can be done with a homegrown technology: https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/chinas-synchrotron-euv-litho-light-source-is-no-sanctions-buster/ https://www.eenewseurope.com/en/chinas-synchrotron-euv-litho... From what I understand, tin-based sources are easier to work with because they are point-like. All the energy is produced from a tiny droplet. Synchrotron sources produce much wider beams, that need to be re-focused properly.
SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
Synchrotron FELs are already used, and their construction paid for due to their scientific uses. Building new ones would require new synchrotrons, which are more expensive than the crazy "hit molten tin drops with lasers to make a plasma" scheme the ASML machines use.

sgarland 2y ago

I’d just like to comment on how batshit insane the technology is. “We pulse lasers in sync with dispensing droplets of molten tin to produce light that doesn’t exist outside of stars, then we use mirrors with a sub-angstrom surface roughness to precisely direct it onto wafers.” Not to mention the fact that this is happening, IIRC, thousands of times per second, and the tool has to take the wafer’s topography into account to focus the beam. Honestly, EUV litho makes every other technology you could describe sound like child’s play.

Fronzie 2y ago
And the tin droplets are in vacuum, with contamination of the wafer being very critical to control.
- leoc 2y ago
  This old article from 2013 was funny: https://web.archive.org/web/20240416175801/https://semiaccurate.com/2013/02/13/euv-moves-forward-two-steps-back-one/ https://web.archive.org/web/20240416175801/https://semiaccur...
dylan604 2y ago
The first time I read about this process, I was convinced aliens were involved. Seriously, it's one of those crazy pitch meeting things that sounds ridiculous so of course it was green lit. "So we fire this laser, pew pew, into a field of molten tin droplets, and bingbangflam, you get this flash of light. So what do you think?" Hold my beer. It's clearly some people that are very smart that can only be explained by aliens
pjdesno 2y ago
Roughly similar craziness: Disk drives mechanically position heads less than 1nm above the platter, with horizontal accuracy of significantly less than the 50nm track width, at a retail price of a few hundred $$ or less. 30 years ago I think you could have gotten any number of experts to explain why both EUV lithography and modern disk drives are impossible.