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I’ve yet to work for a company where promotion isn’t a scam anyway compared to job hopping. You put in way more work than preparing for interviews for a raise

I’ve yet to work for a company where promotion isn’t a scam anyway compared to job hopping. You put in way more work than preparing for interviews for a raise that is often less than job hopping. You want me to grind for two years for a raise when I can just be a C player and get it from someone else with stories about being an A player?

refulgentis 2y ago
100%. I worked at a particularly late age FAANG, at this point advancement was few, far between, and was very, very, easy to predict. And the predictive factors were a toxic stew. TL;DR: got here first | overworks | never ever does anything that could possibly be construed as challenging authority, such as having original ideas in front of someone ranked higher than you, or trying to help create some semblance of process. Being absurdly incompetent at writing maintainable code that had serious, consequential, misunderstandings of the material needed to implement it? That's fine. it's a feature, not a bug, to do just good enough a job to rush exec misunderstandings into prod, as long as anything wrong with it can be dissembled verbally, unless someone else wants to dig into the code. This would have sounded horribly cynical and bitter and loser-speak when I was younger. Now that I saw it first hand, it clarified for me why people do startups and turnover is high, given it was a $300K/year job if you just show up 20 hours a week, and 40 hours a week for a month or two a year. Younger me: lesson here is either care, and do a startup, or don't care and do the family and skiing or whatever. Your plan of "I should go bank money for a few years so I can leave and do my own place safely" panned out great. Your plan of "wow...standards are this low? People will see it and care, certainly if you're doing extremely impactful work" was completely wrong.
- yownie 2y ago
  I find what you wrote difficult to understand.
  - refulgentis 2y ago
    me too, on re-read. I can tell from the score it resonated so maybe there's too much insider baseball. TL;DR advancement in your current position is rare in big tech, and there's too much animal spirits to overcome inherent bias
_heimdall 2y ago
One of the many lessons I've learned (so far) in my career is to do a job you don't mind, maybe even enjoy, on a team you like and ignore the whole ladder climbing game. Promotions are overrated and if you are in software you should be making a comfortable living from the beginning. More money can be helpful, but it isn't worth the stress of chasing promotions and playing the political games required at higher levels.
- bdangubic 2y ago
  * you, interviewing for a new position Interviewer: “mr. so-and-so, I see that you worked as XXXXX at YYYY for ZZZZ number of years, can you tell us about the core reason your career stagnated and you were not promoted in all that time there?” * assumes you somehow got the interview…
  - _heimdall 2y ago
    I've literally had that exact question asked, minus the word "stagnated." The answer is because job title has little to do with scope, responsibility, or skill. At least at any company outside the most massive FAANG type companies. I've also had interviews where I had to explain long gaps in employment, another topic many assume will be uncomfortable or a red flag. It all comes back to telling a good story at the end of the day, explain what you learned, why you were in that position, and how you are better for it.
- pavel_lishin 2y ago
  > on a team you like I cannot over-stress how important this is. Being on a bad team will drain you fast, no matter how interesting the work is. Meanwhile, churning out widgets is something you can do if you enjoy the people you're doing it next to.
ninkendo 2y ago
Is job hopping to get a bump in salary still a thing nowadays? Serious question. I haven’t needed to look for employment in the past year or so, but I’ve heard some terrible things about the job market, enough that I’d be surprised if it was still possible given how slow hiring seems to be.
- recursivecaveat 2y ago
  A long time to get hired is a disaster when you're currently unemployed. As a background thing while you're currently employed it's no big deal. If you are someone who intends to change jobs every 2 years or something you just start the process earlier. I think the job market is usually kinder to those looking for a change in jobs too unfortunately, since your current employer is an implicit vouch for you.
rednafi 2y ago
Learned it the hard way. Multiple times. Being an A player isn’t worth the effort in most places.

refulgentis 2y ago

100%. I worked at a particularly late age FAANG, at this point advancement was few, far between, and was very, very, easy to predict. And the predictive factors were a toxic stew. TL;DR: got here first | overworks | never ever does anything that could possibly be construed as challenging authority, such as having original ideas in front of someone ranked higher than you, or trying to help create some semblance of process. Being absurdly incompetent at writing maintainable code that had serious, consequential, misunderstandings of the material needed to implement it? That's fine. it's a feature, not a bug, to do just good enough a job to rush exec misunderstandings into prod, as long as anything wrong with it can be dissembled verbally, unless someone else wants to dig into the code. This would have sounded horribly cynical and bitter and loser-speak when I was younger. Now that I saw it first hand, it clarified for me why people do startups and turnover is high, given it was a $300K/year job if you just show up 20 hours a week, and 40 hours a week for a month or two a year. Younger me: lesson here is either care, and do a startup, or don't care and do the family and skiing or whatever. Your plan of "I should go bank money for a few years so I can leave and do my own place safely" panned out great. Your plan of "wow...standards are this low? People will see it and care, certainly if you're doing extremely impactful work" was completely wrong.

yownie 2y ago
I find what you wrote difficult to understand.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  me too, on re-read. I can tell from the score it resonated so maybe there's too much insider baseball. TL;DR advancement in your current position is rare in big tech, and there's too much animal spirits to overcome inherent bias

_heimdall 2y ago

One of the many lessons I've learned (so far) in my career is to do a job you don't mind, maybe even enjoy, on a team you like and ignore the whole ladder climbing game. Promotions are overrated and if you are in software you should be making a comfortable living from the beginning. More money can be helpful, but it isn't worth the stress of chasing promotions and playing the political games required at higher levels.

bdangubic 2y ago
* you, interviewing for a new position Interviewer: “mr. so-and-so, I see that you worked as XXXXX at YYYY for ZZZZ number of years, can you tell us about the core reason your career stagnated and you were not promoted in all that time there?” * assumes you somehow got the interview…
- _heimdall 2y ago
  I've literally had that exact question asked, minus the word "stagnated." The answer is because job title has little to do with scope, responsibility, or skill. At least at any company outside the most massive FAANG type companies. I've also had interviews where I had to explain long gaps in employment, another topic many assume will be uncomfortable or a red flag. It all comes back to telling a good story at the end of the day, explain what you learned, why you were in that position, and how you are better for it.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
> on a team you like I cannot over-stress how important this is. Being on a bad team will drain you fast, no matter how interesting the work is. Meanwhile, churning out widgets is something you can do if you enjoy the people you're doing it next to.

ninkendo 2y ago

Is job hopping to get a bump in salary still a thing nowadays? Serious question. I haven’t needed to look for employment in the past year or so, but I’ve heard some terrible things about the job market, enough that I’d be surprised if it was still possible given how slow hiring seems to be.

recursivecaveat 2y ago
A long time to get hired is a disaster when you're currently unemployed. As a background thing while you're currently employed it's no big deal. If you are someone who intends to change jobs every 2 years or something you just start the process earlier. I think the job market is usually kinder to those looking for a change in jobs too unfortunately, since your current employer is an implicit vouch for you.

rednafi 2y ago

Learned it the hard way. Multiple times. Being an A player isn’t worth the effort in most places.