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I dont think journalists really find J6 to be important at all. Even left leaning journalists pay lip service to it but shrugs, buncha white dudes blowing off

by zzzeek 2y ago

I dont think journalists really find J6 to be important at all. Even left leaning journalists pay lip service to it but shrugs, buncha white dudes blowing off steam I think is how "everyone" sees this. As evidence, look at the election we just had. It reminds me of how the World Trade Center was bombed in 1993. Oh, that was scary, well, whatever, the dudes in jail, shrugs. Because it failed to bring the building down. For me, I was like, holy crap people are trying to blow up the WTC arent they going to....keep trying? but that's just not how people think. Super scary thing that failed == ho hum.

wat10000 2y ago
Or, pertinent to the subject at hand, how the Oklahoma City bombing was tied to the right wing militia movement and they’re still mostly seen as, well, a bunch of white dudes blowing off steam like you said. In that case, it seems like people saw that they got the perpetrators and that’s that, not considering what sort of circumstances produced them and where it might go in the future. And WTC and OKC were (at least somewhat) successful attacks! J6 caused damage but failed. We’re really bad at taking failed attempts seriously.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  A big factor in the OKC, J6, and militia movement and White nationalist violence more generally is that the law enforcement community in the US has very significant overlap with the militia and White nationalist movements, impacting how seriously they are treated by law enforcement, and how seriously they are treated by journalists who rely on experts from within the law enforcement community (both current officers and private experts that are the same people relied on as outside experts by law enforcement and are usually ex-law enforcement) for their understanding of the issues.
  - josh_frome 2y ago
    “Some of those that work forces…” indeed.
  - sitkack 2y ago
    If BLM had attempted what J6 actually did, it would have made Kent State look like a Simpson's episode.
    - LudwigNagasena 2y ago
      Seattle allowed BLM protesters to establish their own “autonomous zone” and ignored it until enough kids were killed.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > ignored it until enough kids were killed From overdoses, right? Sort of different from terrorism in many meaningful ways.
        lazyasciiart 2y ago
        No, shooting. I don’t think it was a meaningfully different rate than other weeks in Capitol Hill, but firefighters failing to render first aid certainly didn’t help that one kid who was dying a couple hundred yards from a fire station. (The crowd wouldn’t let a police car through, and it turns out the firefighters wouldn’t approach until the police were there and said it was safe).
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > firefighters failing to render first aid certainly didn’t help that one kid who was dying a couple hundred yards from a fire station Still not terrorism. Left-wing militias are a problem in some parts of the world. They aren’t in America. Our domestic terrorism comes almost exclusively from radical Islam and right-wing nutjobs. (Who, somewhat hilariously, see eye to eye on more than they realise.)
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 2y ago
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  didn't timothy mcveigh also say that it was specifically a retaliation for waco?
  - artistic_regard 2y ago
    [dead]
  - specialist 2y ago
    And Ruby Ridge too, IIRC.
    - mnky9800n 2y ago
      This is in no way a statement support of terrorism but if you simply look at the facts the government showed up at these people’s homes and started shooting. In Waco they killed children by burning them alive and their defense was they didn’t know filling the building with flammable gas would set it on fire. Yes the branch Davidians were stockpiling weapons but at that point they were, to my understanding, legally allowed to own and sell guns. These were tragedies created by the US government on their own citizens.
- treis 2y ago
  I don't think these right wing militias are that much of a threat. They're mostly LARPers and have enough attachment to their groups to not do the radical violence. Historically the right wingers that have actually committed violence are the ones that can't even find belonging in the right wing militias.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    They're essentially the US' guerilla forces that we see in other countries that cause foreign forces operating in their land to get stuck in a quagmire. They may not be undefeatable, but they'll be able to put up a helluva show enough to make the opfor to question their commitment. Probably long enough to sway public opinion as well. Dismiss them at your own peril. The FBI did
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  They were also well planned and intentional. J6 seemed much more like spur-of-the-moment mob action, at least from my armchair.
  - x86_64Ubuntu 2y ago
    But it wasn't, I remember seeing people on Facebook talking about J6 before it happened. It's kind of weird to see the minimization of J6 in real time.
  - ericjmorey 2y ago
    I think your comment is a direct reflection of the lack of popular coverage and discussion of January 6th. It was planned for prior to the election as a contingency. There's clear and direct evidence of that fact and there's very little awareness of that fact.
    - tekknik 2y ago
      I think that your comment is a direct reflection of your desire to paint the opposing political side as dangerous in order to gain political favor and power. It’s still not going to work. When will the left learn that changing peoples mind by lying will not work?
      - wat10000 2y ago
        What’s the lie? Groups like Oath Keepers planned it. It was not spontaneous. The only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because they were completely incompetent. But being bad at overthrowing the government doesn’t mean you didn’t try.
  - LPisGood 2y ago
    There were groups with guns and boats ready to resupply an insurgency.
    - dotancohen 2y ago
- dylan604 2y ago
  After OKC, the FBI turned the eye of sauron upon the militias. Then 9/11 happened, and white guys in the woods were suddenly less scary than non-white guy and the eye of sauron was no longer looking at the white guys in the woods. > We’re really bad at taking failed attempts seriously. To that point, Osama bin Laden had multiple attempts attacking the WTC. They realized that it was going to take a lot more than a car bomb to take down those buildings and made improved plans from a car bomb. Which is just some of the data pointed to by those that are unbelieving that a truck bomb was the sole cause of OKC.
stefantalpalaru 2y ago
[dead]
UncleOxidant 2y ago
> As evidence, look at the election we just had. The amazing thing is how the right was able to essentially rewrite the history of Jan 6 over the last 4 years. Right after the incident even many Republican politicians in DC were calling for Trump's resignation and impeachment (or at least some resolution that would not allow him to run again). There was a huge amount of alarm in the immediate aftermath. But then the narrative about the events of that day slowly started to turn into "it was just a peaceful protest where a few bad apples got a bit out of hand" (that came right after the "it was antifa" stage which didn't last too long when it was clear that these folks were Trump supporters). Trump certainly minimized Jan 6 (to his benefit) and the rest of the GOP began to go along just as they've gone along with the idea that the 2020 election was "stolen" from Trump (and if they actually believe it was stolen then they can come to the conclusion that Jan 6 was justified as some of them do).
- refurb 2y ago
  You’re mistaking genuine concern with political hay making. Of course the Democrats call it an insurrection - that’s what their base wants to hear and benefits them at the polls. But look at what they do in totality - after calling him Hitler the Democratic leadership was wishing Trump a speedy recovery after the assignation attempt. You don’t wish Hitler a “speedy recovery”. It’s mostly political theatre. J6 was a riot, but the republic was not able to topple.
  - Qwertious 2y ago
    >Of course the Democrats call it an insurrection They might have incentive, but that's irrelevant to whether it was an insurrection. And it was, it was textbook. https://acoup.blog/2021/01/15/miscellanea-insurrections-ancient-and-modern-and-also-meet-the-academicats/ https://acoup.blog/2021/01/15/miscellanea-insurrections-anci... >No ancient Greek would have had any trouble in understanding what happened on the 6th or that it was a serious attempt (albeit an incompetent one) to seize power. Having a leader or a political faction move with a mob (often armed, but not always so) to try to disperse the normal civic assemblies of a Greek polis and occupy their normal meeting place was a standard maneuver to try to seize power during stasis. As Dr. Roel Konijnendijk, an ancient Greek history specialist, noted in this excellent discussion on the r/AskHistorians reddit (where he posts as Iphikrates), “In the Greek world, most attempts to seize power by force tended to take the same form: the seditious party would contrive an opportunity to gather in arms while their opponents were unarmed and off-guard, and seize control of all public spaces.” (The link author has a PhD in ancient history) (the "acoup" name is incidental, it stands for A Collection Of Unmitigated Pedantries) And while yes, the Dems have flip-flopped between calling Trump Hitler and wishing him a speedy recovery, that's because they're spineless slaves to proceduralism who won't break decorum if the fate of US's democracy depends on it.

by zzzeek 2y ago

wat10000 2y ago

Or, pertinent to the subject at hand, how the Oklahoma City bombing was tied to the right wing militia movement and they’re still mostly seen as, well, a bunch of white dudes blowing off steam like you said. In that case, it seems like people saw that they got the perpetrators and that’s that, not considering what sort of circumstances produced them and where it might go in the future. And WTC and OKC were (at least somewhat) successful attacks! J6 caused damage but failed. We’re really bad at taking failed attempts seriously.

dragonwriter 2y ago
A big factor in the OKC, J6, and militia movement and White nationalist violence more generally is that the law enforcement community in the US has very significant overlap with the militia and White nationalist movements, impacting how seriously they are treated by law enforcement, and how seriously they are treated by journalists who rely on experts from within the law enforcement community (both current officers and private experts that are the same people relied on as outside experts by law enforcement and are usually ex-law enforcement) for their understanding of the issues.
- josh_frome 2y ago
  “Some of those that work forces…” indeed.
- sitkack 2y ago
  If BLM had attempted what J6 actually did, it would have made Kent State look like a Simpson's episode.
  - LudwigNagasena 2y ago
    Seattle allowed BLM protesters to establish their own “autonomous zone” and ignored it until enough kids were killed.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > ignored it until enough kids were killed From overdoses, right? Sort of different from terrorism in many meaningful ways.
      - lazyasciiart 2y ago
        No, shooting. I don’t think it was a meaningfully different rate than other weeks in Capitol Hill, but firefighters failing to render first aid certainly didn’t help that one kid who was dying a couple hundred yards from a fire station. (The crowd wouldn’t let a police car through, and it turns out the firefighters wouldn’t approach until the police were there and said it was safe).
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > firefighters failing to render first aid certainly didn’t help that one kid who was dying a couple hundred yards from a fire station Still not terrorism. Left-wing militias are a problem in some parts of the world. They aren’t in America. Our domestic terrorism comes almost exclusively from radical Islam and right-wing nutjobs. (Who, somewhat hilariously, see eye to eye on more than they realise.)
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 2y ago
mnky9800n 2y ago
didn't timothy mcveigh also say that it was specifically a retaliation for waco?
- artistic_regard 2y ago
  [dead]
- specialist 2y ago
  And Ruby Ridge too, IIRC.
  - mnky9800n 2y ago
    This is in no way a statement support of terrorism but if you simply look at the facts the government showed up at these people’s homes and started shooting. In Waco they killed children by burning them alive and their defense was they didn’t know filling the building with flammable gas would set it on fire. Yes the branch Davidians were stockpiling weapons but at that point they were, to my understanding, legally allowed to own and sell guns. These were tragedies created by the US government on their own citizens.
treis 2y ago
I don't think these right wing militias are that much of a threat. They're mostly LARPers and have enough attachment to their groups to not do the radical violence. Historically the right wingers that have actually committed violence are the ones that can't even find belonging in the right wing militias.
- dylan604 2y ago
  They're essentially the US' guerilla forces that we see in other countries that cause foreign forces operating in their land to get stuck in a quagmire. They may not be undefeatable, but they'll be able to put up a helluva show enough to make the opfor to question their commitment. Probably long enough to sway public opinion as well. Dismiss them at your own peril. The FBI did
SoftTalker 2y ago
They were also well planned and intentional. J6 seemed much more like spur-of-the-moment mob action, at least from my armchair.
- x86_64Ubuntu 2y ago
  But it wasn't, I remember seeing people on Facebook talking about J6 before it happened. It's kind of weird to see the minimization of J6 in real time.
- ericjmorey 2y ago
  I think your comment is a direct reflection of the lack of popular coverage and discussion of January 6th. It was planned for prior to the election as a contingency. There's clear and direct evidence of that fact and there's very little awareness of that fact.
  - tekknik 2y ago
    I think that your comment is a direct reflection of your desire to paint the opposing political side as dangerous in order to gain political favor and power. It’s still not going to work. When will the left learn that changing peoples mind by lying will not work?
    - wat10000 2y ago
      What’s the lie? Groups like Oath Keepers planned it. It was not spontaneous. The only reason anyone thinks otherwise is because they were completely incompetent. But being bad at overthrowing the government doesn’t mean you didn’t try.
- LPisGood 2y ago
  There were groups with guns and boats ready to resupply an insurgency.
  - dotancohen 2y ago
dylan604 2y ago
After OKC, the FBI turned the eye of sauron upon the militias. Then 9/11 happened, and white guys in the woods were suddenly less scary than non-white guy and the eye of sauron was no longer looking at the white guys in the woods. > We’re really bad at taking failed attempts seriously. To that point, Osama bin Laden had multiple attempts attacking the WTC. They realized that it was going to take a lot more than a car bomb to take down those buildings and made improved plans from a car bomb. Which is just some of the data pointed to by those that are unbelieving that a truck bomb was the sole cause of OKC.

stefantalpalaru 2y ago

[dead]

UncleOxidant 2y ago

> As evidence, look at the election we just had. The amazing thing is how the right was able to essentially rewrite the history of Jan 6 over the last 4 years. Right after the incident even many Republican politicians in DC were calling for Trump's resignation and impeachment (or at least some resolution that would not allow him to run again). There was a huge amount of alarm in the immediate aftermath. But then the narrative about the events of that day slowly started to turn into "it was just a peaceful protest where a few bad apples got a bit out of hand" (that came right after the "it was antifa" stage which didn't last too long when it was clear that these folks were Trump supporters). Trump certainly minimized Jan 6 (to his benefit) and the rest of the GOP began to go along just as they've gone along with the idea that the 2020 election was "stolen" from Trump (and if they actually believe it was stolen then they can come to the conclusion that Jan 6 was justified as some of them do).

refurb 2y ago
You’re mistaking genuine concern with political hay making. Of course the Democrats call it an insurrection - that’s what their base wants to hear and benefits them at the polls. But look at what they do in totality - after calling him Hitler the Democratic leadership was wishing Trump a speedy recovery after the assignation attempt. You don’t wish Hitler a “speedy recovery”. It’s mostly political theatre. J6 was a riot, but the republic was not able to topple.
- Qwertious 2y ago
  >Of course the Democrats call it an insurrection They might have incentive, but that's irrelevant to whether it was an insurrection. And it was, it was textbook. https://acoup.blog/2021/01/15/miscellanea-insurrections-ancient-and-modern-and-also-meet-the-academicats/ https://acoup.blog/2021/01/15/miscellanea-insurrections-anci... >No ancient Greek would have had any trouble in understanding what happened on the 6th or that it was a serious attempt (albeit an incompetent one) to seize power. Having a leader or a political faction move with a mob (often armed, but not always so) to try to disperse the normal civic assemblies of a Greek polis and occupy their normal meeting place was a standard maneuver to try to seize power during stasis. As Dr. Roel Konijnendijk, an ancient Greek history specialist, noted in this excellent discussion on the r/AskHistorians reddit (where he posts as Iphikrates), “In the Greek world, most attempts to seize power by force tended to take the same form: the seditious party would contrive an opportunity to gather in arms while their opponents were unarmed and off-guard, and seize control of all public spaces.” (The link author has a PhD in ancient history) (the "acoup" name is incidental, it stands for A Collection Of Unmitigated Pedantries) And while yes, the Dems have flip-flopped between calling Trump Hitler and wishing him a speedy recovery, that's because they're spineless slaves to proceduralism who won't break decorum if the fate of US's democracy depends on it.