6 ms·
In a similar vein, I always found it interesting (although frightening) that rabies cause hydrophobia. The theory is that drinking water can wash away the viru
by slaucon 2y ago
In a similar vein, I always found it interesting (although frightening) that rabies cause hydrophobia. The theory is that drinking water can wash away the virus from your saliva, inhibiting its ability to spread through bites.
It makes sense that a virus passed through saliva would evolve like this, but I just find it particularly unsettling when a pathogen can effect higher-level behaviors like drinking water (or jumping into water for mantises).
- thaumasiotes 2y ago> I always found it interesting (although frightening) that rabies cause hydrophobia. Well, there are two potential senses of "hydrophobia". In its primary use, it means "rabies", and it's not really interesting that rabies would cause that. In rare cases, it could mean "fear of water", which rabies doesn't cause. Rabies causes pain when swallowing. The pain causes fear through conventional mechanisms.
- sebtron 2y agoI have not checked the sources, but according to Wikipedia [1]: Rabies has also occasionally been referred to as hydrophobia ("fear of water") throughout its history. It refers to a set of symptoms in the later stages of an infection in which the person has difficulty swallowing, shows panic when presented with liquids to drink, and cannot quench their thirst. Saliva production is greatly increased, and attempts to drink, or even the intention or suggestion of drinking, may cause excruciatingly painful spasms of the muscles in the throat and larynx. Since the infected individual cannot swallow saliva and water, the virus has a much higher chance of being transmitted, because it multiplies and accumulates in the salivary glands and is transmitted through biting. It seems more than just "pain when swallowing". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabies
- dotancohen 2y agoIt does seem like your comment for the most part supports the GP comment, other than the disagreement about the definition of pain. For what it's worth, I see the word pain as he used it to be a better fit than the word fear, as in phobia.
- withinboredom 2y agoPain doesn’t cause panic.
- kruffalon 2y agoSure, I don't know how it works physiologically... But anecdata at least suggests that being in enough pain can cause panic, but it might do so indirectly so that the fear is created around the inability to think the pain will ever end or at least lessen at least a bit.
- withinboredom 2y agoMy leg has been fucked for 15 years. Sometimes it hurts so bad, I’d need narcotics to make it go away. I don’t panic when walking, I just deal with it because I need to get to my destination. If you are thirsty, you will drink through the pain. Panic is something else.
- kruffalon 2y agoI'm sorry that you have that pain in the first place but I'm glad that you are able to process being in pain without getting into a panic.
- imchillyb 2y agoPanic is a learned behavior. Exposure to a stimulus is often both cause and trigger. How is it that you’re an adult and still don’t know this. Toddlers know this.
- withinboredom 2y agoI think you've gotten fear confused with panic. Fear is indeed a learned behavior, panic is not. Panic is beyond rational thinking, it is what gets people who save drowning people dead. Panic is what gets normal humans dead when in bad situations. Panic is not learned, it saves your ass at all costs -- or gets you killed.
- GuB-42 2y agoIt is probably a bit of both. From the same Wikipedia article > symptoms can include slight or partial paralysis, anxiety, insomnia, confusion, agitation, abnormal behavior, paranoia, terror, and hallucinations There is more than just pain here. The virus changes the host behavior, making it more aggressive, so it is very possible that it also promotes a panic reaction to pain.
- amelius 2y agoOn the other hand, without saliva the virus cannot spread, and you need water to have saliva.
- llamaimperative 2y agoEvolution has already done the math on this (Or more precisely, it’s already doing the math, and the current answer is that hydrophobia is the better solution [for rabies’ purposes])
- DontchaKnowit 2y agoReally that is not how evolution works
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- amelius 2y agoThe particular math used might get stuck in a local optimum ...
- llamaimperative 2y agoPossible but unlikely in this case
- serf 2y agowithout a big genetic assay isn't it virtually impossible to know whether or not the trait (hydrophobia) persisted due to the symptom itself rather than just a correlated advantageous mutation that brought along hydrophobia as a happy coincidence? if we need to continue the flawed math analogy; evolution has always done pretty imprecise cocktail-napkin math, even if it has been wildly successful at it.
- brookst 2y agoThe frightening part is that it’s a cognitive effect. That’s crazy. And it opens the whole “how much of our personality is real versus controlled by microbes” question.
- wizardforhire 2y agoShip of Theseus now with your own mind.
- gosub100 2y agoImagine there was a virus or parasite that just made you feel pleasure, all the time, with no tolerance effects? I wonder what progress has been made in addiction medicine for meds that simply prevent the development of tolerance? If possible, it would fall under the category of harm reduction. Failing the patient to get sober, they could at least continue getting high on the same amount which might prevent their failure to function.
- emptiestplace 2y agoI appreciate harm reduction but I think any such 'perfect' drug would lead to dehydration / starvation deaths, or at least a lot more people living on the streets.
- brookst 2y agoSee also: Infinite Jest
- username135 2y agoYoud have to figure out how to continuously produce dopamine and serotonin, or replicate their effects from the perspective of pleasure. Pretty tall order since they have multiple purposes inside you. Trillion dollar idea though.
- gosub100 2y agoI was more suggesting that if the receptors could be targeted (I have no idea how, just spit-balling) by another agent, then tolerance would perhaps not occur. The addict/user would still need the original drug.
- DontchaKnowit 2y agoThat is extremely far fetched