8 ms·

My active hours are typically very early AM, 2-4AM, until 10AM, and there is definitely a space for this in the market for individuals that just want a place to

My active hours are typically very early AM, 2-4AM, until 10AM, and there is definitely a space for this in the market for individuals that just want a place to relax and/or work outside of their home outside of normal working hours. Starbucks used to fill this niche where I lived (they would open at 3,4AM to accommodate students in the area trying to study for finals. Nowadays, most of these starbucks/coffee shops have closed or shifted to an in-store hostile setup of a drive through plus a lobby that is mostly intended for delivery drivers, walled off laptop plugs and won't tell you why, removed all charging stations, and just generally made it a shitty experience to sit inside and do anything at all other than get the hell out. This is almost universal now where i live, a college town with multiple colleges, and I wouldn't even begin to tell you where to find a coffee shop where I could gather with 3-4 other grad students and bang some crazy project out in a few hours anymore, and I have many, many big colleges near me. There's a demand the market isn't meeting, but, that demand didn't rake in the most dollars so here we are and this is some kind of novelty. These kinds of spaces existed basically everywhere in my area circa 2012-2018. They weren't tied to any particular ethnicity, just was a need people apparently had.

brightball 2y ago
Waffle House is 24 hours and potentially comes with great stories.
- duskwuff 2y ago
  Great stories? Sure, I suppose. Not the kind that tend to be conducive to a productive work environment, though.
  - sureglymop 2y ago
    In general, do you really get work done in a coffee shop or any kind of public place like that? I find myself needing a very quiet and orderly environment if I really want to deeply focus and get work done.
    - Groxx 2y ago
      >do you really get work done in a coffee shop or any kind of public place like that? Yes, definitely. For me it's that despite the noise, I have complete confidence that none of it is relevant to me, so I can ignore it completely. In offices, tons of things are relevant for me because I'm a popular random-problem-solver. At home, anything could be relevant, even though most of it is not. The noise isn't the issue, it's the brainpower spent on triaging the noise.
      - dotancohen 2y ago
        > none of it is relevant to me, so I can ignore it completely. If I manage to properly digest this then you may have just changed my life. Thank you.
        michaelleslie 2y ago
        I take it this is more of a meta-realization than one acutely related to open working environments
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - cebert 2y ago
      That’s how I am as well, but I’ve grown to appreciate that everyone has different ideal working environments. The main reason I prefer WFH over RTO is the open office floor plan makes it very difficult for me to focus and work. I find it quite distracting.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - brightball 2y ago
        For a second I read WFH as Waffle House and not Work From Home.
      - 2y ago
- aprilthird2021 2y ago
  Yeah but these are usually not in urban centers but more like highway exits. For city dwellers a waffle house is usually not an option
- 0_____0 2y ago
  Why WFH [Work From Home] when you can WFH [WaFfle House]?
  - supercurry 2y ago
    [dead]
abtinf 2y ago
Starbucks also plays very loud, irritating music nonstop now.
wenc 2y ago
I stopped drinking after I hit 40 and Starbucks was my third place (my favorite Starbucks was the one near DePaul University in Lincoln Park in Chicago). I am now in the city of Starbucks (Seattle area) and am surprised that many of the Starbucks here (1) don't open late; (2) don't have comfortable seating; (3) aren't sufficiently lit (it's mostly dim, mood lighting -- I can't read paper books in most of them). I wonder if it's because Seattle people like their local spots (that also don't open late) that Starbucks had to optimize their revenue for to-go orders instead of sit-down ones. This is really unfortunate. Howard Schultz was all bout the "third place".
- dvdbloc 2y ago
  There used to be a great Starbucks in Kirkland that was 24hr. I am equally frustrated that there are no coffee shops open late even close to the universities in Seattle.
  - wenc 2y ago
    Oh the 24 hr Kirkland Starbucks is still there. https://maps.app.goo.gl/UUsVjfy9MPeF3RwT9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/UUsVjfy9MPeF3RwT9 There's another 24 hr one in Northgate. https://maps.app.goo.gl/RxT4vwEDsZECTu2k7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/RxT4vwEDsZECTu2k7 So there's 2 in the entire greater Seattle area. But you're right, there are very few places open late even in the U-district.
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      Interesting that the Northgate Starbucks closes for just 4 hours every week from Mon 10pm to Tue 2am.
    - dieselgate 2y ago
      SO recently finished 7 years of grad school at UW and we’re both happy to not spend much time around U dist at night. She still gets the police alerts and it’s not inspiring - such crazy violent things happening there all the time. In my opinion that could be a reason 24 hr businesses aren’t persisting in that area. But yes this would be a logical place for late night establishments
ryukoposting 2y ago
Starbucks is getting increasingly hostile, for sure. It's hard to find a Starbucks anymore that has any comfortable seating at all. I went to one in the Chicago burbs recently that had no drive-thru, no indoor seating, and they were visibly annoyed when I ordered inside. Everyone was picking up mobile orders. There were a couple outdoor tables, and that was it. The outlets were disconnected too. Where I live, I'm very fortunate to have three local chains that are very sit-down friendly. They all have 3-10 locations, so they cover the whole city without succumbing to corporate bullshit. One of them even has a storefront in their roasting/packaging facility. If you want to see how coffee is manufactured and/or you like loud white noise, that's a good place to go.
- flocciput 2y ago
  What I've found is that while local coffee shops are sit-down friendly, they all close at 1, 2, or 3pm, at least where I am. 5-6pm if they're a chain. If I want a small bite to eat, a hot drink, and a place to work after 5 I basically have the option of a bar or a sit-down restaurant. It sucks, and I have no idea where this 3pm closing time thing is coming from. Maybe being too short staffed to have more than just a morning shift?
  - wbl 2y ago
    The demand is higher in the morning and opening a place costs a large amount of wages.
steveoscaro 2y ago
I find that Starbucks locations in other countries are much nicer than in the US. Speaking of Mexico and Thailand specifically from my recent experiences. And this is having lived in Seattle most recently in the US. I think the homeless/addict problem has ruined a lot of urban Starbucks locations in the US.
ajsnigrutin 2y ago
Most of those places want you to order coffee, preferably with friends (more people per one table) drink it in some reasonable amount of time (<30 minutes), and then leave the table to the next group of guests. A few laptopers hogging a table for half a day in an otherwise crowded coffeeshop can costs them hundreds of euros/dollars in lost sales. But i guess this creates a maket for shared workespaces, where you could lease a desk per hour.
999900000999 2y ago
>Nowadays, most of these starbucks/coffee shops have closed or shifted to an in-store hostile setup of a drive through plus a lobby that is mostly intended for delivery drivers, walled off laptop plugs and won't tell you why, They don't want to become homeless shelters. Homelessness has rapidly increased in the last decade, to the point where CoWork spaces becomes a viable business. If you want to do a project pay 300$ a month to WeWork. Before the explosion of homelessness, back when Starbucks, Coffee Bean, would let you sit around for hours, a 300$ WeWork membership would be silly.
- SirSavary 2y ago
  > Homelessness has rapidly increased in the last decade, to the point where CoWork spaces becomes a viable business. Not sure I see the connection here...?
  - croissants 2y ago
    I think the chain goes: Homelessness increases --> any place where you can just hang out without paying attracts more homeless people --> there are too many homeless people hanging out for hanging out to remain good for business --> cheap hangouts close --> expensive hangouts like co-working spaces become viable.
    - jrnichols 2y ago
      Add increased labor costs and your profit margin for late night coffee drops significantly. Add a safety factor, and it becomes a more cost effective option to reduce hours. We've been seeing that here in my Northern California city for the past few years.
      - 999900000999 2y ago
        To be clear, I'm not mad at the homeless. If anything local governments should provide more for these populations, showers at libraries and pop up clinics would do wonders. Of course the bigger issue would be housing costs going straight to the moon. Rent should be 70% of what it is.
esses 2y ago
24h Starbucks are where I studied for the CFA exam. All of the financial podcasts I listen to tell me Starbucks' new CEO seems to want them to go back to the third space glory days[0]. Today, I’m making a commitment: We’re getting back to Starbucks. We’re refocusing on what has always set Starbucks apart — a welcoming coffeehouse where people gather, and where we serve the finest coffee, handcrafted by our skilled baristas. This is our enduring identity. We will innovate from here. ... 3. Reestablishing Starbucks as the community coffeehouse: We’re committed to elevating the in-store experience — ensuring our spaces reflect the sights, smells and sounds that define Starbucks. Our stores will be inviting places to linger, with comfortable seating, thoughtful design and a clear distinction between “to-go” and “for-here” service. [0]: https://about.starbucks.com/press/2024/back-to-starbucks/ https://about.starbucks.com/press/2024/back-to-starbucks/

brightball 2y ago

Waffle House is 24 hours and potentially comes with great stories.

duskwuff 2y ago
Great stories? Sure, I suppose. Not the kind that tend to be conducive to a productive work environment, though.
- sureglymop 2y ago
  In general, do you really get work done in a coffee shop or any kind of public place like that? I find myself needing a very quiet and orderly environment if I really want to deeply focus and get work done.
  - Groxx 2y ago
    >do you really get work done in a coffee shop or any kind of public place like that? Yes, definitely. For me it's that despite the noise, I have complete confidence that none of it is relevant to me, so I can ignore it completely. In offices, tons of things are relevant for me because I'm a popular random-problem-solver. At home, anything could be relevant, even though most of it is not. The noise isn't the issue, it's the brainpower spent on triaging the noise.
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      > none of it is relevant to me, so I can ignore it completely. If I manage to properly digest this then you may have just changed my life. Thank you.
      - michaelleslie 2y ago
        I take it this is more of a meta-realization than one acutely related to open working environments
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - cebert 2y ago
    That’s how I am as well, but I’ve grown to appreciate that everyone has different ideal working environments. The main reason I prefer WFH over RTO is the open office floor plan makes it very difficult for me to focus and work. I find it quite distracting.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - brightball 2y ago
      For a second I read WFH as Waffle House and not Work From Home.
    - 2y ago
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Yeah but these are usually not in urban centers but more like highway exits. For city dwellers a waffle house is usually not an option
0_____0 2y ago
Why WFH [Work From Home] when you can WFH [WaFfle House]?
- supercurry 2y ago
  [dead]

abtinf 2y ago

Starbucks also plays very loud, irritating music nonstop now.

wenc 2y ago

I stopped drinking after I hit 40 and Starbucks was my third place (my favorite Starbucks was the one near DePaul University in Lincoln Park in Chicago). I am now in the city of Starbucks (Seattle area) and am surprised that many of the Starbucks here (1) don't open late; (2) don't have comfortable seating; (3) aren't sufficiently lit (it's mostly dim, mood lighting -- I can't read paper books in most of them). I wonder if it's because Seattle people like their local spots (that also don't open late) that Starbucks had to optimize their revenue for to-go orders instead of sit-down ones. This is really unfortunate. Howard Schultz was all bout the "third place".

dvdbloc 2y ago
There used to be a great Starbucks in Kirkland that was 24hr. I am equally frustrated that there are no coffee shops open late even close to the universities in Seattle.
- wenc 2y ago
  Oh the 24 hr Kirkland Starbucks is still there. https://maps.app.goo.gl/UUsVjfy9MPeF3RwT9 https://maps.app.goo.gl/UUsVjfy9MPeF3RwT9 There's another 24 hr one in Northgate. https://maps.app.goo.gl/RxT4vwEDsZECTu2k7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/RxT4vwEDsZECTu2k7 So there's 2 in the entire greater Seattle area. But you're right, there are very few places open late even in the U-district.
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    Interesting that the Northgate Starbucks closes for just 4 hours every week from Mon 10pm to Tue 2am.
  - dieselgate 2y ago
    SO recently finished 7 years of grad school at UW and we’re both happy to not spend much time around U dist at night. She still gets the police alerts and it’s not inspiring - such crazy violent things happening there all the time. In my opinion that could be a reason 24 hr businesses aren’t persisting in that area. But yes this would be a logical place for late night establishments

ryukoposting 2y ago

Starbucks is getting increasingly hostile, for sure. It's hard to find a Starbucks anymore that has any comfortable seating at all. I went to one in the Chicago burbs recently that had no drive-thru, no indoor seating, and they were visibly annoyed when I ordered inside. Everyone was picking up mobile orders. There were a couple outdoor tables, and that was it. The outlets were disconnected too. Where I live, I'm very fortunate to have three local chains that are very sit-down friendly. They all have 3-10 locations, so they cover the whole city without succumbing to corporate bullshit. One of them even has a storefront in their roasting/packaging facility. If you want to see how coffee is manufactured and/or you like loud white noise, that's a good place to go.

flocciput 2y ago
What I've found is that while local coffee shops are sit-down friendly, they all close at 1, 2, or 3pm, at least where I am. 5-6pm if they're a chain. If I want a small bite to eat, a hot drink, and a place to work after 5 I basically have the option of a bar or a sit-down restaurant. It sucks, and I have no idea where this 3pm closing time thing is coming from. Maybe being too short staffed to have more than just a morning shift?
- wbl 2y ago
  The demand is higher in the morning and opening a place costs a large amount of wages.

steveoscaro 2y ago

I find that Starbucks locations in other countries are much nicer than in the US. Speaking of Mexico and Thailand specifically from my recent experiences. And this is having lived in Seattle most recently in the US. I think the homeless/addict problem has ruined a lot of urban Starbucks locations in the US.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago

Most of those places want you to order coffee, preferably with friends (more people per one table) drink it in some reasonable amount of time (<30 minutes), and then leave the table to the next group of guests. A few laptopers hogging a table for half a day in an otherwise crowded coffeeshop can costs them hundreds of euros/dollars in lost sales. But i guess this creates a maket for shared workespaces, where you could lease a desk per hour.

999900000999 2y ago

>Nowadays, most of these starbucks/coffee shops have closed or shifted to an in-store hostile setup of a drive through plus a lobby that is mostly intended for delivery drivers, walled off laptop plugs and won't tell you why, They don't want to become homeless shelters. Homelessness has rapidly increased in the last decade, to the point where CoWork spaces becomes a viable business. If you want to do a project pay 300$ a month to WeWork. Before the explosion of homelessness, back when Starbucks, Coffee Bean, would let you sit around for hours, a 300$ WeWork membership would be silly.

SirSavary 2y ago
> Homelessness has rapidly increased in the last decade, to the point where CoWork spaces becomes a viable business. Not sure I see the connection here...?
- croissants 2y ago
  I think the chain goes: Homelessness increases --> any place where you can just hang out without paying attracts more homeless people --> there are too many homeless people hanging out for hanging out to remain good for business --> cheap hangouts close --> expensive hangouts like co-working spaces become viable.
  - jrnichols 2y ago
    Add increased labor costs and your profit margin for late night coffee drops significantly. Add a safety factor, and it becomes a more cost effective option to reduce hours. We've been seeing that here in my Northern California city for the past few years.
    - 999900000999 2y ago
      To be clear, I'm not mad at the homeless. If anything local governments should provide more for these populations, showers at libraries and pop up clinics would do wonders. Of course the bigger issue would be housing costs going straight to the moon. Rent should be 70% of what it is.

esses 2y ago

24h Starbucks are where I studied for the CFA exam. All of the financial podcasts I listen to tell me Starbucks' new CEO seems to want them to go back to the third space glory days[0]. Today, I’m making a commitment: We’re getting back to Starbucks. We’re refocusing on what has always set Starbucks apart — a welcoming coffeehouse where people gather, and where we serve the finest coffee, handcrafted by our skilled baristas. This is our enduring identity. We will innovate from here. ... 3. Reestablishing Starbucks as the community coffeehouse: We’re committed to elevating the in-store experience — ensuring our spaces reflect the sights, smells and sounds that define Starbucks. Our stores will be inviting places to linger, with comfortable seating, thoughtful design and a clear distinction between “to-go” and “for-here” service. [0]: https://about.starbucks.com/press/2024/back-to-starbucks/ https://about.starbucks.com/press/2024/back-to-starbucks/