5 ms·

Weird. I love a good link list, but most links I clicked were just regular portfolio websites, not digital gardens in the gardens vs. streams[1] sense. Does th

by mikae1 2y ago

Weird. I love a good link list, but most links I clicked were just regular portfolio websites, not digital gardens in the gardens vs. streams[1] sense. Does the creator not know what a digital garden is? [1] https://archive.org/details/gardens-and-streams-wikis-blogs-and-ui-popup-indie-web-camp-session-2020 https://archive.org/details/gardens-and-streams-wikis-blogs-...

dend 2y ago
Fair feedback. In my eyes, I treat any personal site as a digital garden - I am not really sticking to the "pure" definition. If you are putting an effort to curate and grow your own site, is that not a digital garden? I think it is, but that's my own take on it. I intentionally try to avoid sites that are in any shape _not_ personal or otherwise representative of an individual trying to stake their little corner of the internet.
- mikae1 2y ago
  Thanks for replying. :) > If you are putting an effort to curate and grow your own site, is that not a digital garden? That's really stretching the definition IMO. What characterizes a garden is the slow growth and constant pruning — the making of a personal wiki. https://indieweb.org/digital_garden https://indieweb.org/digital_garden and https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history are good intros to gardens. Most of the websites I visited seemed to be and forget sites targeted at potential employers.
  - dend 2y ago
    I amended the description to better reflect the work. Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate the pointers to the IndieWeb and Maggie's sites.
  - wink 2y ago
    I dunno, sounds more like some gate keeping, or maybe I'm biased because I hate the term for no discernible reason. > has content of different levels of development, is imperfect and often a playground for experimentation, learning, revising, iteration, and growth for diverse content So because I polish my "posts" to a certain degree before publishing it's not a digital garden? Because 50% of my blog posts are "timeless" in a sense that they're about... stuff that exists.. not current dvelopments it's not a digital garden? Becuase I never delete stuff (as if people with wikis would delete stuff :P)... and so on. I mean, I couldn't care less but I feel (and this seems to be a common theme) that the indieweb people are mostly dogmatic about their definitions and not very encouraging (also why I tried to take part in the irc channel years ago and left, frustrated). But yeah, if someone want to own the definition of blog and digital garden and not accepting a certain overlap with "personal website", sure.
    - mikae1 2y ago
      > I dunno, sounds more like some gate keeping, or maybe I'm biased because I hate the term for no discernible reason. I'm not too fond of the term either, but I think that's because it got gentrified and somewhat misunderstood. Everything personal on the web was suddenly a garden. > But yeah, if someone want to own the definition of blog and digital garden and not accepting a certain overlap with "personal website", sure. Of course there's a overlap. My point was not that the listed sites had to fulfill the criteria for classification, but if there's not a single hint of gardening going on, then we might as well call en.wikipedia.org a blog? Also, is a website "personal" if it's just there to market your services? Sure, it's personal as in your website, but content wise it's not particularly personal. Gardens or personal wikis are usually not there to market services, but to build some kind of personal knowledge base (that other nerds, not employers, might find interesting).
      - wink 2y ago
        Point taken, maybe I got a little sidetracked with the direction of the discussion and not the original website and its content. FWIW, I think there are wikis that are non-personal (wikipedia, tech, etc) and there can be websites by individuals that are just "marketing" in the wider sense, but I would not call them personal website. (i.e. jsut a portfolio or "here are my socials")
        econ 2y ago
        I don't care much for labels. I have one rule for websites that everyone should follow (lol): whatever you are doing, keep doing it, stick to the theme/topic, stick to the update frequency. It is only wrong if you change either.
- zeroq 2y ago
  No, it's not. If you keep calling your dog a "cat" it won't start meowing. The list is really disappointing, not only it's hard to find an actual digital garden on the list, most aren't even blogs, but simple resumes or portfolios.
mtsolitary 2y ago
Agree with this. Added my digital garden to the list and then was excited to dig through all the other sites, a little disappointed to find most were just personal landing pages (but very nice looking and professional ones!) I guess Maggie and Kasper’s lists are still the gold standard for digital garden indices :)
- a2800276 2y ago
  What are Maggie and Kasper's list? Could you provide a link, please?
  - mtsolitary 2y ago
    https://github.com/MaggieAppleton/digital-gardeners https://github.com/MaggieAppleton/digital-gardeners https://github.com/KasperZutterman/Second-Brain https://github.com/KasperZutterman/Second-Brain
kubb 2y ago
To be fair, if watching this almost 3 hours long recording is the only way to learn the difference between a garden and a stream, I can completely understand why people wouldn’t know it.
- nobrains 2y ago
  A stream is timeline based serial content (like twitter "following"). A garden is exploratory, with content not being serial in time.
  - mikae1 2y ago
    Or even simpler: a garden is a wiki and a stream (feed) is a blog.
- ParetoOptimal 2y ago
  https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/ https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-te...
- diggan 2y ago
  "Garden" is basically a wiki, but not necessarily collaborative. A stream is basically a blog, but not necessarily with the typical long blogposts, but can be mixed with smaller thoughts too.
- simondebbarma 2y ago
  https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history How about a digital garden post about digital gardens:?
  - bovermyer 2y ago
    That's an awesome link, thank you!
mahirsaid 2y ago
sorry for the late response. I think this is a good example of a digital garden, because this is simply a corner the internet where the creators have control over their content. i agree some are weird but that's what makes it special. A-lot more of these exist but i don't know about them yet or i forget about them after sometime of not visiting them.
fxnn 2y ago
Even if I don’t care much about the „digital garden“ concept, I was much surprised to visit a page called „blogscroll“, click on a link, and then not find a blog.

by mikae1 2y ago

dend 2y ago

Fair feedback. In my eyes, I treat any personal site as a digital garden - I am not really sticking to the "pure" definition. If you are putting an effort to curate and grow your own site, is that not a digital garden? I think it is, but that's my own take on it. I intentionally try to avoid sites that are in any shape _not_ personal or otherwise representative of an individual trying to stake their little corner of the internet.

mikae1 2y ago
Thanks for replying. :) > If you are putting an effort to curate and grow your own site, is that not a digital garden? That's really stretching the definition IMO. What characterizes a garden is the slow growth and constant pruning — the making of a personal wiki. https://indieweb.org/digital_garden https://indieweb.org/digital_garden and https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history are good intros to gardens. Most of the websites I visited seemed to be and forget sites targeted at potential employers.
- dend 2y ago
  I amended the description to better reflect the work. Thank you for the feedback, I appreciate the pointers to the IndieWeb and Maggie's sites.
- wink 2y ago
  I dunno, sounds more like some gate keeping, or maybe I'm biased because I hate the term for no discernible reason. > has content of different levels of development, is imperfect and often a playground for experimentation, learning, revising, iteration, and growth for diverse content So because I polish my "posts" to a certain degree before publishing it's not a digital garden? Because 50% of my blog posts are "timeless" in a sense that they're about... stuff that exists.. not current dvelopments it's not a digital garden? Becuase I never delete stuff (as if people with wikis would delete stuff :P)... and so on. I mean, I couldn't care less but I feel (and this seems to be a common theme) that the indieweb people are mostly dogmatic about their definitions and not very encouraging (also why I tried to take part in the irc channel years ago and left, frustrated). But yeah, if someone want to own the definition of blog and digital garden and not accepting a certain overlap with "personal website", sure.
  - mikae1 2y ago
    > I dunno, sounds more like some gate keeping, or maybe I'm biased because I hate the term for no discernible reason. I'm not too fond of the term either, but I think that's because it got gentrified and somewhat misunderstood. Everything personal on the web was suddenly a garden. > But yeah, if someone want to own the definition of blog and digital garden and not accepting a certain overlap with "personal website", sure. Of course there's a overlap. My point was not that the listed sites had to fulfill the criteria for classification, but if there's not a single hint of gardening going on, then we might as well call en.wikipedia.org a blog? Also, is a website "personal" if it's just there to market your services? Sure, it's personal as in your website, but content wise it's not particularly personal. Gardens or personal wikis are usually not there to market services, but to build some kind of personal knowledge base (that other nerds, not employers, might find interesting).
    - wink 2y ago
      Point taken, maybe I got a little sidetracked with the direction of the discussion and not the original website and its content. FWIW, I think there are wikis that are non-personal (wikipedia, tech, etc) and there can be websites by individuals that are just "marketing" in the wider sense, but I would not call them personal website. (i.e. jsut a portfolio or "here are my socials")
      - econ 2y ago
        I don't care much for labels. I have one rule for websites that everyone should follow (lol): whatever you are doing, keep doing it, stick to the theme/topic, stick to the update frequency. It is only wrong if you change either.
zeroq 2y ago
No, it's not. If you keep calling your dog a "cat" it won't start meowing. The list is really disappointing, not only it's hard to find an actual digital garden on the list, most aren't even blogs, but simple resumes or portfolios.

mtsolitary 2y ago

Agree with this. Added my digital garden to the list and then was excited to dig through all the other sites, a little disappointed to find most were just personal landing pages (but very nice looking and professional ones!) I guess Maggie and Kasper’s lists are still the gold standard for digital garden indices :)

a2800276 2y ago
What are Maggie and Kasper's list? Could you provide a link, please?
- mtsolitary 2y ago
  https://github.com/MaggieAppleton/digital-gardeners https://github.com/MaggieAppleton/digital-gardeners https://github.com/KasperZutterman/Second-Brain https://github.com/KasperZutterman/Second-Brain

kubb 2y ago

To be fair, if watching this almost 3 hours long recording is the only way to learn the difference between a garden and a stream, I can completely understand why people wouldn’t know it.

nobrains 2y ago
A stream is timeline based serial content (like twitter "following"). A garden is exploratory, with content not being serial in time.
- mikae1 2y ago
  Or even simpler: a garden is a wiki and a stream (feed) is a blog.
ParetoOptimal 2y ago
https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-technopastoral/ https://hapgood.us/2015/10/17/the-garden-and-the-stream-a-te...
diggan 2y ago
"Garden" is basically a wiki, but not necessarily collaborative. A stream is basically a blog, but not necessarily with the typical long blogposts, but can be mixed with smaller thoughts too.
simondebbarma 2y ago
https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history https://maggieappleton.com/garden-history How about a digital garden post about digital gardens:?
- bovermyer 2y ago
  That's an awesome link, thank you!

mahirsaid 2y ago

sorry for the late response. I think this is a good example of a digital garden, because this is simply a corner the internet where the creators have control over their content. i agree some are weird but that's what makes it special. A-lot more of these exist but i don't know about them yet or i forget about them after sometime of not visiting them.

fxnn 2y ago

Even if I don’t care much about the „digital garden“ concept, I was much surprised to visit a page called „blogscroll“, click on a link, and then not find a blog.