4 ms·

Iterm is better documented. Try finding how to pass Ctrl-Meta-key; better yet, throw in a shift as well. Setting up 24bit color, supporting italics, and allowi

by pama 2y ago

Iterm is better documented. Try finding how to pass Ctrl-Meta-key; better yet, throw in a shift as well. Setting up 24bit color, supporting italics, and allowing Emacs keystrokes to go through to the remote server at will is a quality of life improvement. I managed to be feature complete with iterm on macOS with minimal effort, but not with the default terminal, and there was no source code I could check to help me avoid trivial annoyances. Xterm/rxvt from xQuartz on Mac OS are easier to work with than the default Mac OS terminal, and feel closer to their behavior in Linux, but then you have some unneeded X window features and miss other trivial automation features like multiple tabs.

eptcyka 2y ago
iTerm2 is slower. It feels way jankier with nvim than Console, kitty or literally anything else. I do not believe anyone should be using iterm2, given their history of security issues. All of them leave me scratching my head as to why did anyone think that designing it the way they did is a good idea.
- dangus 2y ago
  The idea that iTerm is noticeably slow is hilarious. If you buy a base model grandma level MacBook Air it can play Cyberpunk 2077 without breaking a sweat and somehow terminal performance is an issue. And if all I cared about was raw performance I’d be using vim instead of VSCode. But raw performance isn’t what makes me productive.
  - eptcyka 2y ago
    But it is. Scrolling in neovim is noticably slower on iTerm2. This makes it cumbersome to use. Even if it doesn't prevent me from inputting the keystrokes any faster, if it is cumbersome to use, it will make me work slower.
    - dangus 2y ago
      An entire thread of neovim users generally saying that the performance is acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/neovim/s/JOQL9e76fp https://www.reddit.com/r/neovim/s/JOQL9e76fp Just because something else is faster doesn’t mean that iTerm is slow. It’s all relative.
      - eptcyka 2y ago
        Sure, it is slow for me.
      - BSDobelix 2y ago
        >Just because something else is faster doesn’t mean that iTerm is slow. It’s all relative. If you are thinking about a change, console marketing would be a good place to start ;)
    - soraminazuki 2y ago
      I've used numerous terminal emulators on both macOS and Linux. I use Neovim daily. There is no noticeable difference in scrolling performance. Additionally, there are so many ways scrolling can slow down in Neovim (e.g., bad tmux config). It's hard to take your word for it that the issue lies in iTerm2 in the absence of any sort of reproducible evidence.
      - eptcyka 2y ago
        There might be some tmux involved, yes. But the same tmux config works just fine with Kitty. Kitty also hasn't been leaking commands I've ran as DNS requests. Nor has it left my zsh history on a remote host. I don't care to investigate why iTerm2 works worse for me because I am satisfied enough with a solution that works. iTerm2 not working for me rhymes with my previous experiences with iTerm2 and its security issues.
        soraminazuki 2y ago
        That's uncalled for. Security issues are quickly fixed and released in iTerm2. The dev is responsive to feedback, even to hostile Mastodon trolls brigading the issue tracker [1]. Please don't be like that. Also, any serious software has its own share of problems. Have you actually looked at the issue tracker for your supposed champion? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40657890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40657890
        likeabatterycar 2y ago
        People are allowed to have preferences and dislike software. Similarly, if your mechanic forgets to tighten the lug nuts or leaves the oil cap off, and nearly kills you or destroys the engine, you are allowed to find a new mechanic without the Hackernews hoi polloi coming out of the woodwork saying how unfair it is, he has mouths to feed, and linking to critical Yelp reviews of your new mechanic trying to convince you of your own idiocy and wrongdoing. This emotional attachment to a piece of throwaway software here is frankly weird.
  - BlobberSnobber 2y ago
    Cyberpunk 2077 on a MacBook Air without breaking a sweat? At what resolution and framerate?
    - dangus 2y ago
      The plain M4 chip will run Cyberpunk 2077 at 30FPS 1080p. (Andrew Tsai on YouTube) I did neglect the fact that Apple hasn’t thrown that chip in the Air yet, but I’m sure that’s only a few months away.
      - BlobberSnobber 2y ago
        At ultra settings? Even if, 30 fps at 1080p is not nearly “without breaking a sweat”. Also, the air will have trouble keeping that performance after a few minutes without a fan. I love my MBP M4 Pro, but its gaming performance doesn’t reflect well what it’s capable of.
        dangus 2y ago
        This is at High settings! And I haven’t even mentioned that the game is running via Crossover through multiple translation systems. That’s translating both Intel Windows to ARM Mac as well as translating the graphics APIs (DirectX or Vulkan to Metal). The cyberpunk native Mac release comes out this year and will almost certainly improve performance further. Why would anyone care about ultra settings on a laptop? I don’t even set my PC desktop to ultra settings in the game and I have a current generation mid-high end GPU. Setting demanding games to Ultra just giving up FPS to not tell the difference. 30fps 1080p is basically console-level standards for a AAA graphically intense game (not esports or online shooter). And that isn’t bad at all for the processor with integrated graphics that Apple sticks in its cheapest computer and its tablets. Your MacBook Pro M4 Pro is one of the best gaming laptops on the market in terms of hardware! Especially if you want something that’s thin, light, and quiet with good battery life and not just a thick tank of a system or a loud but thin and light gaming laptop that struggles to power and cool its dGPU. Depending on your configuration, you can actually play Cyberpunk at high settings at or above 60FPS on your laptop. You’re vastly underestimating it! Your laptop just needs the software to get ported, and the Mac gaming space is rapidly evolving now that Apple is paying attention to it.
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    Latency during typing is a real issue, not sure what you find hilarious here.
- pama 2y ago
  I wanted to like kitty and tried it many times. It is subtle issues that break Emacs now and then, like breaking the display alignment for some zero-width joined emoji. Iterm2 on a MacBook is snappy for me. With remote work, the latency for me is mostly network delays of order a couple of ms per keystroke for the cabled Ethernet connection; mosh helps for the extreme cases, or when on WiFi (which often feels annoying without mosh), otherwise ssh -C is sufficient for my daily driver.
frizlab 2y ago
I don’t know about the rest, but I’m sure Terminal supports italic.

by pama 2y ago

eptcyka 2y ago

iTerm2 is slower. It feels way jankier with nvim than Console, kitty or literally anything else. I do not believe anyone should be using iterm2, given their history of security issues. All of them leave me scratching my head as to why did anyone think that designing it the way they did is a good idea.

dangus 2y ago
The idea that iTerm is noticeably slow is hilarious. If you buy a base model grandma level MacBook Air it can play Cyberpunk 2077 without breaking a sweat and somehow terminal performance is an issue. And if all I cared about was raw performance I’d be using vim instead of VSCode. But raw performance isn’t what makes me productive.
- eptcyka 2y ago
  But it is. Scrolling in neovim is noticably slower on iTerm2. This makes it cumbersome to use. Even if it doesn't prevent me from inputting the keystrokes any faster, if it is cumbersome to use, it will make me work slower.
  - dangus 2y ago
    An entire thread of neovim users generally saying that the performance is acceptable: https://www.reddit.com/r/neovim/s/JOQL9e76fp https://www.reddit.com/r/neovim/s/JOQL9e76fp Just because something else is faster doesn’t mean that iTerm is slow. It’s all relative.
    - eptcyka 2y ago
      Sure, it is slow for me.
    - BSDobelix 2y ago
      >Just because something else is faster doesn’t mean that iTerm is slow. It’s all relative. If you are thinking about a change, console marketing would be a good place to start ;)
  - soraminazuki 2y ago
    I've used numerous terminal emulators on both macOS and Linux. I use Neovim daily. There is no noticeable difference in scrolling performance. Additionally, there are so many ways scrolling can slow down in Neovim (e.g., bad tmux config). It's hard to take your word for it that the issue lies in iTerm2 in the absence of any sort of reproducible evidence.
    - eptcyka 2y ago
      There might be some tmux involved, yes. But the same tmux config works just fine with Kitty. Kitty also hasn't been leaking commands I've ran as DNS requests. Nor has it left my zsh history on a remote host. I don't care to investigate why iTerm2 works worse for me because I am satisfied enough with a solution that works. iTerm2 not working for me rhymes with my previous experiences with iTerm2 and its security issues.
      - soraminazuki 2y ago
        That's uncalled for. Security issues are quickly fixed and released in iTerm2. The dev is responsive to feedback, even to hostile Mastodon trolls brigading the issue tracker [1]. Please don't be like that. Also, any serious software has its own share of problems. Have you actually looked at the issue tracker for your supposed champion? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40657890 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40657890
        likeabatterycar 2y ago
        People are allowed to have preferences and dislike software. Similarly, if your mechanic forgets to tighten the lug nuts or leaves the oil cap off, and nearly kills you or destroys the engine, you are allowed to find a new mechanic without the Hackernews hoi polloi coming out of the woodwork saying how unfair it is, he has mouths to feed, and linking to critical Yelp reviews of your new mechanic trying to convince you of your own idiocy and wrongdoing. This emotional attachment to a piece of throwaway software here is frankly weird.
- BlobberSnobber 2y ago
  Cyberpunk 2077 on a MacBook Air without breaking a sweat? At what resolution and framerate?
  - dangus 2y ago
    The plain M4 chip will run Cyberpunk 2077 at 30FPS 1080p. (Andrew Tsai on YouTube) I did neglect the fact that Apple hasn’t thrown that chip in the Air yet, but I’m sure that’s only a few months away.
    - BlobberSnobber 2y ago
      At ultra settings? Even if, 30 fps at 1080p is not nearly “without breaking a sweat”. Also, the air will have trouble keeping that performance after a few minutes without a fan. I love my MBP M4 Pro, but its gaming performance doesn’t reflect well what it’s capable of.
      - dangus 2y ago
        This is at High settings! And I haven’t even mentioned that the game is running via Crossover through multiple translation systems. That’s translating both Intel Windows to ARM Mac as well as translating the graphics APIs (DirectX or Vulkan to Metal). The cyberpunk native Mac release comes out this year and will almost certainly improve performance further. Why would anyone care about ultra settings on a laptop? I don’t even set my PC desktop to ultra settings in the game and I have a current generation mid-high end GPU. Setting demanding games to Ultra just giving up FPS to not tell the difference. 30fps 1080p is basically console-level standards for a AAA graphically intense game (not esports or online shooter). And that isn’t bad at all for the processor with integrated graphics that Apple sticks in its cheapest computer and its tablets. Your MacBook Pro M4 Pro is one of the best gaming laptops on the market in terms of hardware! Especially if you want something that’s thin, light, and quiet with good battery life and not just a thick tank of a system or a loud but thin and light gaming laptop that struggles to power and cool its dGPU. Depending on your configuration, you can actually play Cyberpunk at high settings at or above 60FPS on your laptop. You’re vastly underestimating it! Your laptop just needs the software to get ported, and the Mac gaming space is rapidly evolving now that Apple is paying attention to it.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Latency during typing is a real issue, not sure what you find hilarious here.
pama 2y ago
I wanted to like kitty and tried it many times. It is subtle issues that break Emacs now and then, like breaking the display alignment for some zero-width joined emoji. Iterm2 on a MacBook is snappy for me. With remote work, the latency for me is mostly network delays of order a couple of ms per keystroke for the cabled Ethernet connection; mosh helps for the extreme cases, or when on WiFi (which often feels annoying without mosh), otherwise ssh -C is sufficient for my daily driver.

frizlab 2y ago

I don’t know about the rest, but I’m sure Terminal supports italic.