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I don't really think so. The Amish have a nice system. Their society has many fewer bad actors compared to general society. Actually one of the keys is repeate

I don't really think so. The Amish have a nice system. Their society has many fewer bad actors compared to general society. Actually one of the keys is repeated contact. People who have to interact again and again will try and game the system less. Not sure how to build that into a star system but why give up so easily? Do programmers give up when you say "this algorithm can't be made any faster?"

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> one of the keys is repeated contact The other is hierarchy. You can't automate reputation scoring.
eddythompson80 2y ago
I don't think it's just the Amish. Collectivist cultures in general have (or maybe perceived to have, I don't know) fewer bad actors compared to individualistic cultures. It doesn't matter if people have to interact frequently if there is no real consequences to that interaction. The punishment in those collectivist cultures involves social shunning, shaming, etc. Individualistic cultures almost pride themselves on how much they can disregard social shunning and shaming. Shameless people are celebrities and elected officials. They are admired as opposed to shunned and ignored. A bad actor in an Amish community is expelled and loses access to what that community offers. That would be illegal in the general society unless their "bad act" was actually illegal. Discriminating against someone for being a dickhead who exploits loopholes and unregulated corner cases (without explicitly breaking the law) would be illegal in many contexts. > Not sure how to build that into a star system but why give up so easily? Do programmers give up when you say "this algorithm can't be made any faster?" I don't think people have given up. Online fraud detection is a massive industry as is. Spotify plays, YouTube views, Google search, Amazon reviews, reddit upvotes, twitter's retweets, facebook likes/shares, etc all fall exactly into the same bucket. There is even a significant dollar amount attached to many of those more so that GitHub stars. All are frequently gamed/faked and it's a battle between the platforms and the adversary
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Good points. I'll only add that I just mentioned the Amish because it's the only culture ("subculture?") that I've read thoroughly about. But I think in collectivist cultures it is indeed much harder to be a bad actor. Perhaps we should have a little more shunning...
- lupire 2y ago
  You are describing small communities, not collectivist ones. Large "Collectivist" communities have body count in the hundreds of millions.
keybored 2y ago
We’re talking about a stupid gamification and notoriety metric. I won’t be losing sleep over “human nature” failing to honor it.
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Me neither. I don't give a darn about GitHub. It could burn in hell for all I care. But my comment was about this phenomenon in general, not how it affects some Microsoft service.
seventytwo 2y ago
Amish culture doesn’t scale across humanity though. It’s a walled garden.
yencabulator 2y ago
Repeated contact is just one mechanism, there are others that scale to country size. The end result is called a high trust society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie... For example, Tokyo has a lot of people and they actively dislike interacting with strangers but if you leave your laptop unattended while peeing at a coffee shop, it's very unlikely to have been stolen.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> one of the keys is repeated contact The other is hierarchy. You can't automate reputation scoring.

eddythompson80 2y ago

I don't think it's just the Amish. Collectivist cultures in general have (or maybe perceived to have, I don't know) fewer bad actors compared to individualistic cultures. It doesn't matter if people have to interact frequently if there is no real consequences to that interaction. The punishment in those collectivist cultures involves social shunning, shaming, etc. Individualistic cultures almost pride themselves on how much they can disregard social shunning and shaming. Shameless people are celebrities and elected officials. They are admired as opposed to shunned and ignored. A bad actor in an Amish community is expelled and loses access to what that community offers. That would be illegal in the general society unless their "bad act" was actually illegal. Discriminating against someone for being a dickhead who exploits loopholes and unregulated corner cases (without explicitly breaking the law) would be illegal in many contexts. > Not sure how to build that into a star system but why give up so easily? Do programmers give up when you say "this algorithm can't be made any faster?" I don't think people have given up. Online fraud detection is a massive industry as is. Spotify plays, YouTube views, Google search, Amazon reviews, reddit upvotes, twitter's retweets, facebook likes/shares, etc all fall exactly into the same bucket. There is even a significant dollar amount attached to many of those more so that GitHub stars. All are frequently gamed/faked and it's a battle between the platforms and the adversary

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Good points. I'll only add that I just mentioned the Amish because it's the only culture ("subculture?") that I've read thoroughly about. But I think in collectivist cultures it is indeed much harder to be a bad actor. Perhaps we should have a little more shunning...
lupire 2y ago
You are describing small communities, not collectivist ones. Large "Collectivist" communities have body count in the hundreds of millions.

keybored 2y ago

We’re talking about a stupid gamification and notoriety metric. I won’t be losing sleep over “human nature” failing to honor it.

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Me neither. I don't give a darn about GitHub. It could burn in hell for all I care. But my comment was about this phenomenon in general, not how it affects some Microsoft service.

seventytwo 2y ago

Amish culture doesn’t scale across humanity though. It’s a walled garden.

yencabulator 2y ago

Repeated contact is just one mechanism, there are others that scale to country size. The end result is called a high trust society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-trust_and_low-trust_socie... For example, Tokyo has a lot of people and they actively dislike interacting with strangers but if you leave your laptop unattended while peeing at a coffee shop, it's very unlikely to have been stolen.