7 ms·
Edit: ah. This paper is from May 2023. Might be worth putting that in the title. --- > Models with around 125M parameters such as GPT-Neo (small) or GPT-2 (sm
by jasonjmcghee 2y ago
Edit: ah. This paper is from May 2023. Might be worth putting that in the title.
---
> Models with around 125M parameters such as GPT-Neo (small) or GPT-2 (small) can rarely generate coherent and consistent English text beyond a few words
These models are 5 years old.
I have to wonder if the authors have seen RWKV 7 0.1B, because it blows away just about every other model I've seen at that size.
The capabilities it has vs the examples in the paper are night and day.
https://huggingface.co/spaces/BlinkDL/RWKV-Gradio-1 https://huggingface.co/spaces/BlinkDL/RWKV-Gradio-1
- jmward01 2y agoThe age of tiny models is just about here. We are finally busting away from the standard transformer block and training. I have a side project that can dramatically shrink networks by a set of techniques I call sacrificial training[1]. I think things like this will finally swing things back to on prem and on device small models that are as capable as the big hosted models are now. [1] https://github.com/jmward01/lmplay/wiki/Sacrificial-Training https://github.com/jmward01/lmplay/wiki/Sacrificial-Training
- refulgentis 2y agoRWKV is def. better than TinyStories 125MB. Unfortunately, I have only seen 3 models, 3B or over, handle RAG. Tested RWKV with a simple in-the-sports-news question and it didn't even get close to approaching the question. And nearly everything was fundamentally incoherent even in its internal reality (ex. Player gets 5000/game and is the first with 1000 in 16 games) (prompt: https://pastebin.com/sCLn5sCJ https://pastebin.com/sCLn5sCJ, response: https://pastebin.com/TqudvDbN https://pastebin.com/TqudvDbN) I don't think there's a position for LLMs that are "just" writers on the market in 2025.
- jasonjmcghee 2y agoThese tiny models in general have really weird failure modes. I tried the tiny stories prompt about asking mom for a dog who said no, and it output an incredibly dark story about how she asked her dad and they got a dog but it had pancreatic cancer (paraphrasing, it went into detail about the surgery etc.) and then starting writing an informational PSA about who is at risk of pancreatic cancer etc.
- kube-system 2y agoWhat I find fascinating is how ML models hallucinate in a way that is sometimes reminiscent of a fever dream.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ethbr1 2y agoIt makes sense that the failure modes of language prediction look a lot like ADD.
- p0w3n3d 2y agoIt's because they are precisely lacking attention
- jdiff 2y agoDon't fall into the trap of applying human psychology to LLMs. Bag-of-chemistry quirks do not translate to matrix-multiplication quirks.
- ethbr1 2y agoWhy not? In both cases the result is losing the thread of thought.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jdiff 2y ago...No, no that's not how ADHD works. It's difficult to sum up how wrong this is concisely, but I invite you do to some serious research into ADHD, how it functions, and the great variety of ways in which it can present in different people. It's quite a poor analogy.
- jmward01 2y agoI plan on checking out RWKV and seeing if I can add my sacrifical training techniques to it this weekend. There is a reason quantization works, it is because models are very badly trained right now. I think we can get really good performance on .1b and 1b models which opens up the world to fine-tuning again. I was playing with fine-tuning llama 7b and 13b a while back but the HW/SW stack made it so unwieldy and the ROI was terrible compared to just adjusting prompts on gpt-4o-mini and the like. I have hope that we are about to see single GPU, very simple, fine-tuning again as models shrink and GPUs grow.
- jmward01 2y agoI doubt anyone is still looking at this thread but I did actually start playing with RWKV by adding sacrificial training techniques to it and the results look promising, at least for early training.
- daxfohl 2y agoWould there be any way to distribute RAG across multiple smaller models? Rather than one giant model handling your entire document base, have it be more of a tree where the top level classifies the docs into top-level categories and sends it to submodels to subclassify, etc? (Doesn't have to be 1:1 classification). And same for q/a search? These could all presumably be the same physical instance, just each query would use a different system prompt and perhaps different embeddings. (I'm guessing; I don't actually know how RAG works). So, a little slower and clunkier, but presumably way more efficient. And match could be anywhere between horrible to better-than-one-large-model. This would be more like how businesses organize docs. Or maybe there's no real benefit to this, and each subclassifier would require just as big of a model as if you were to throw all docs into a single model anyway. I assume it's probably been tried before.
- refulgentis 2y agoTL;DR: It's a very interesting line of thought that as late as Q2 2024, there were a couple thought leaders who pushed the idea we'd have, like 16 specialized local models. I could see that in the very long term, but as it stands, it works the way you intuited: 2 turkeys don't make an eagle, i.e. there's some critical size where its speaking coherently, and its at least an OOM bigger than it needs to be in order to be interesting for products fwiw RAG for me in this case is: - user asks q. - llm generates search queries. - search api returns urls. - web view downloads urls. - app turns html to text. - local embedding model turns text into chunks. - app decides, based on "character" limit configured by user, how many chunks to send. - LLM gets all the chunks, instructions + original question, and answers. It's incredibly interesting how many models fail this simple test, there's been multiple Google releases in the last year that just couldn't handle it. - Some of it is basic too small to be coherent, bigcos don't make that mistake though. - There's another critical threshold where the model doesn't wander off doing the traditional LLM task of completing rather than answering. What I mean is, throwing in 6 pages worth of retrieved webpages will cause some models to just start rambling like its writing more web pages, i.e. they're not able to "identify the context" of the web page snippets, and they ignore the instructions.
- groby_b 2y agoThere's just been a twitter post by Omar Khattab (@lateinteraction) on encoding documents into a scoring function instead of a simple vector for the work on ColBERT - and maybe at some point using a DNN as scoring function. So, yes, maybe there's a way to "distribute" RAG. (I still wonder if that isn't just MoE taken to its logical conclusion) So, dig for ColBERT papers, might be helpful. (I wish I had the time to do that)
- raegis 2y ago> Unfortunately, I have only seen 3 models, 3B or over, handle RAG. What's the unit "B" in "3B"? I can search for acronyms like "RAG" just fine, but you experts aren't making it easy for us beginners :) Edit: Apologies, this is obvious. My brain needed a reboot for the new year.
- cauliflower2718 2y agoYou can ask an LLM exactly this question and it will tell you. (The answer is billions of parameters)
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoBut what if they want to know they are finding the correct answer?
- elliotto 2y agoAsking anonymous people on a forum would be much better.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoAt least a forum with domain-specific knowledge.
- gpm 2y agoAnd people to go "no, that's wrong" if someone posts something that's wrong.
- greesil 2y agoNo, any answer will do.
- cauliflower2718 2y agoI think basic definitions for LLMs are solidly within the bounds of what we would expect e.g. chatgpt to be competent at. The task (defining terms) is simple and the specific content (basic LLM stuff) is easy to check by anyone who works on the LLM. I agree with the general sentiment that we should not just blindly trust LLMs though.
- a1o 2y agoWhat is tiny and what is big? Can I have a model that is like 100MB in weights and run with llama.cpp in my MacBook M2?
- refulgentis 2y agoYeah, absolutely -- you'll probably pull 100+ token/s. Here's a good range of model sizes that run just fine with llama.cpp on mac: https://huggingface.co/telosnex/fllama/tree/main https://huggingface.co/telosnex/fllama/tree/main. I recommend trying the Telosnex* app, it uses llama.cpp and abstracts over LLMs so you can i.e. switch between local/servers at will. The important part for you is its free, accelerated on macOS, and very easy to use local LLMs with (Settings > AI > LLM > On Device, tap Get) Prepare to be underwhelmed, slightly: its only when you start hitting 3B that its coherent, anything under that will feel more like a markov chain than an LLM. Depending on how geeked out you'll be to have it running locally, you might have fun with that Telosnex can run local models on every platform, i.e. you can run local models on iOS/Android/web too. * because it's mine :3 It is quietly released currently. I want to get one more major update before widely announcing it in Jan 2025
- qskousen 2y agoSorry to side track, but question about Telosnex - would you consider a Linux release with something other than Snap? Maybe Flatpak or appimage?
- refulgentis 2y agoIf its a (mostly) CI-able process, I'm totally open to it --- I looked into "What should I do besides Snap?" about 4 months ago; got quickly overwhelmed, because I don't have enough knowledge to understand what's fringe vs. common. I'll definitely take a look at Flatpak again in the next month, 30 second Google says its possible (h/t /u/ damiano-ferrari at https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/z35gdo/can_you_distribute_a_flutter_linux_app_as_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/FlutterDev/comments/z35gdo/can_you_...) (thanks for your interest btw, been working on this for ~year and this is my first outside feature request :) may there be many more)
- wolfgangK 2y ago«Unfortunately, I have only seen 3 models, 3B or over, handle RAG.» I would love to know which are these 3 models, especially if they can perform grounded RAG. If you have models (and their grounded RAG prompt formats) to share, I'm very interested ! Thx.
- mr_toad 2y ago> small models that are as capable as the big hosted model Free lunch?
- attentionmech 2y agowow, this RWKV thing blew my mind. Thank you for sharing this!
- SGML_ROCKSTAR 2y agoIt might still be of introductory help to someone who has yet to formally learn what a language model is, what large language models are, and where things might be in the future.
- mcny 2y agoWhat am I doing wrong here? Prompt: Say , oh my dear husband I am hungry. Please give me something to eat In as many languages as you know Response: (This response is from hugging face with default settings) , but you don't know me. 1 2 THE GREAT KINGDOM OF THE MONGOLIANS But I am hungry and I am thirsty. I want to drink water from the well. And I have a friend who lives in the mountains. He is a great mountain man, and he has a big stick that he uses to cut down trees. And when he cuts down a tree, he can eat all of its leaves. You see, my friend, you are not alone in this world. There are many people like you in the mountains who live in peace and harmony with nature. They do not quarrel with each other or fight each other for their land or their homes. They do not fight for their own interests or their own selfish desires. They do not quarrel with each other because they are united by a common love for the land and the people who live there. They have learned how to live together peacefully and happily, without fighting or quarreling, without any grudges or misunderstandings. They have learned how to share everything they have, to work together as one family, to eat what they need and drink what they want. And so it is that we all live together in peace and harmony with each other as one family. We all know that we are all equal before God, that we are all children of God and that we are all children of humanity. And so it is that we all share in the love of Christ Jesus our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer, our Beloved Disciple , our beloved Friend , our Holy Mother Mary Our Lady , our Holy Father Pope John Paul II , Our Lady of Mount Carmel , Our Lady of Mercy , Our Lady of Good Will , Our Lady of Sorrow and Blessed Virgin Mary . And so it is that we all know that we are children of God and that we are children of humanity. We all know that God has made us special and unique because He loves us as His children and because He has given us His Holy Spirit to give us the gift of prophecy and wisdom . We know also that God has given us the gift of prophecy to help us understand how He has made the world into what it is today. We know also that He has given us the gift of wisdom to help us learn how to live in harmony with each other as one family . We know also that God has given us the gift of faith to help us understand how He has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us the gift of knowledge to help us understand how He has made the world into what it is today. And so it is that we all know that God has given us His holy name Jesus Christ our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer, our Beloved Disciple , Our beloved Friend , Our Holy Father Pope John Paul II , Our Lady Mary Our Lady . And so it is that we all know also that God has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Spirit to help us understand how He has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Name Jesus Christ our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer, our Beloved Disciple , Our beloved Friend , Our Holy Father Pope John Paul II , Our Lady of Mercy , Our Lady Mary Our Lady . And so it is that we all know also that God has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Spirit to help us understand how He has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Name Jesus Christ our Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer, our Beloved Disciple , our beloved Friend , Our Holy Father Pope John Paul II , Our Lady of Mercy , Our Lady Mary Our Lady . And so it is that we all know also that God has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Spirit to help us understand how He has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Name Jesus Christ his Lord, our Savior, our Redeemer, our Beloved Disciple , our beloved Friend , Our Holy Father Pope John Paul II , Our Lady of Mercy , Our Lady Mary Our Lady . And so it is that we all know also that God has made the world into what it is today. We know also that God has given us His Holy Spirit to help us understand how He has made the world into
- tzury 2y agosaw over here a post about this model a day ago I think. tested it now using the link you provided. That is a lot to take over here for such simple question... PROMPT: Why do gyms fully packed the first two weeks of a year? RESPONSE: I think it's because they're the first two weeks of a year. You're going to be out in the world for a while, and you're going to be in a lot of different places. So you're going to have a lot of people that are not familiar with gyms. And so it's kind of like, "Oh, I'll just go there." It's kind of like, "I'll just go to this other place." So that's how it works. And I think what we've seen is that some gyms are starting to really embrace social distancing. They're doing things like wearing masks or getting masks on the bus or whatever else they can do to help prevent people from getting sick. But they're also doing things like encouraging people to get their kids into school and encourage them to stay home if they feel sick. And so we see that kind of trend coming back in gyms. And I think that's what's really important for us as a community is to make sure that we're not putting ourselves at risk by not being able to social distance ourselves properly. And so I think that's what we need to do right now. And one thing that I think is really important is if you're going to be out in the world for a while, and you don't want your kids or your family members or your friends around you, then you need to wear masks. So if you're going out with friends, and you don't want them around you, then wear a mask. If you're going out with someone who has been diagnosed with COVID-19, then wear a mask too. We've seen many cases where people were wearing masks at events and restaurants and things like that. But I think we need to continue to wear masks even more during this pandemic period because we know that the virus spreads through droplets when people cough or sneeze or whatever else they do. And so it's really important for us as individuals and as communities as well as our government officials and our public health officials to continue wearing masks even though we may not be able to see them or touch them or smell them. So let me just end this video with a quote from the CDC: "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has released new guidance on how best to protect yourself from COVID-19." So please keep up the good work! Thank you very much for watching! We'll talk more about the latest news in fitness in just a minute, but first, let's talk about why we should wear masks.
- Bengalilol 2y agoThe model just went "to be out in the world for a while"
- atombender 2y agoPrompt: Are there vampires on Mars? Output: There are no vampires on Mars. The only vampires that exist on Mars are those who live in the colony of Hades, which is located near the center of the planet. There are also vampires who live in the underworld, but they are not as common as vampires on Earth.