4 ms·

> Thanks to HTML5, WebGL, and WebAssembly, browser games are catching up to native ones in ways we couldn’t have imagined just a few years ago. Meta’s Oculus br

> Thanks to HTML5, WebGL, and WebAssembly, browser games are catching up to native ones in ways we couldn’t have imagined just a few years ago. Meta’s Oculus browser already delivers web games that rival native apps in performance. And once WebGPU becomes standard, the differences will be practically invisible. If only. Have you tried Google Earth on Firefox lately? You can't even zoom in and out any more without waiting many seconds. It's CPU bound, not I/O or graphics bound. Anyone know what went wrong in there? Is it a deliberate attempt by Google to force people to Chrome? As for games, the browser environment is still rather limited. WebGPU is (mostly) single thread. (You can share memory between processes, which is something else.) It's a subset of Vulkan - one command queue, and no bindless mode. Google proposes to fix that around December 2026. On the other hand, there is absolutely no reason that Uber or Waymo needs to have an "app".

pjmlp 2y ago
Also, after a decade, browser vendors still don't provide any usable 3D developer tooling better than SpectorJS.
- xyzsparetimexyz 2y ago
  Yeah, your best bet is targeting both desktop and web with something like the rust wgpu library and using renderdoc for debugging/profiling. Which works well until the code stops working in the browser for whatever reason.
debugnik 2y ago
> Is it a deliberate attempt by Google to force people to Chrome? For the last several months, the YouTube player takes me several seconds to load on Firefox and freezes on me for a couple of seconds every other time I press play/pause... And changing the user agent fixed it! So I say yes. But I found the extensions to do so quite clunky so I gave up.
- Animats 2y ago
  > And changing the user agent fixed it! Send a note about that to the legal team at the Department of Justice managing the Google antitrust lawsuit.[1] [1] https://apnews.com/article/google-search-antitrust-case-59114d8bf1dc4c8453c08acaa4051f14 https://apnews.com/article/google-search-antitrust-case-5911...
- recursive 2y ago
  This is really annoying when it happens. Next time it starts, I'll definitely try the user agent thing. When loading youtube, when this is happening, (and sometimes it doesn't) the whole page locks up for a few seconds half-way through loading/rendering/hydrating. After that, it seems to do a CSS recalc/reflow. While waiting, it's impossible to do anything.
adastra22 2y ago
> On the other hand, there is absolutely no reason that Uber or Waymo needs to have an "app". Here’s one: I don’t give websites my location or the ability to interrupt me with notifications. Ever. I’ve blocked the browser from doing this entirely. I have Uber and Lyft apps installed and granted those permissions though.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  You could give only them location access then they wouldn't be able to see what apps are installed, contacts and family photos or listen on the mic. You are afraid of a browser so you give system access?
  - SllX 2y ago
    What kind of phone are you running and how old is it? Apps don’t get any of that other information either unless you specifically approve it. If you want to give Uber just notifications and just location, you can do that.
    - fragmede 2y ago
      And even then, it only gets location access while it's running (if that's the access that's set). And doesn't get to run in the background either (if you say it's not allowed to).
    - Asmod4n 2y ago
      "When it's running" also means when it runs in the background, and apps can wake themselves up any time they want when you allow them to send you notifications.
      - SllX 2y ago
        Running location triggers an icon in the UI which puts it in a list of apps that have run location recently. An app abusing this in the background will eventually cause the operating system to ask you “hey, are you okay with this?” alongside a map of your current location as your phone sees it.
serial_dev 2y ago
> Anyone know what went wrong in there? Knowing, I don’t know, could be related though… Google Earth uses Flutter on web, too, which is in my opinion, the platform where Flutter is giving its users the worst experience. Though the root cause of the bug could also be non-Flutter related, because in Google Earth’s case, Flutter mainly just wraps the interesting bits (maps stuff in c++???) with a unified UI skin. And does Google break Firefox all the time on purpose? Good question… https://medium.com/flutter/extreme-ui-adaptability-in-flutter-how-google-earth-supports-every-use-case-on-earth-6db4661e7a17 https://medium.com/flutter/extreme-ui-adaptability-in-flutte...
nostromo 2y ago
Yes, Google has adopted lots of dark patterns. I use YouTube via browser (Safari or Brave) on mobile and it's clear they don't care about the mobile web experience at all - to the point it seems like they are deliberately trying to force you to use the app. I assume it's because they know the browsers support adblocking and limitations on tracking and notifications.
- marxisttemp 2y ago
  If you’re in the Apple ecosystem, I highly recommend the Vinegar extension which replaces the awful custom player with a standard HTML5 <video> element
xyzsparetimexyz 2y ago
>It's a subset of Vulkan - one command queue, and no bindless mode. Google proposes to fix that around December 2026. Yeah, WebGPU would be a good, modern API... If it was 2015 and not 2025. But now the differences between it and the desktop are widening and at a certain point, people will just break compatibility for the sake of convenience. I mean, theres not even an equivalent of vkCmdFillBuffer ffs! If you want to reset e.g. a indirect dispatch buffer in a command list, tour best bet is to have a buffer that contains uint32_t 1s and do copies.

pjmlp 2y ago

Also, after a decade, browser vendors still don't provide any usable 3D developer tooling better than SpectorJS.

xyzsparetimexyz 2y ago
Yeah, your best bet is targeting both desktop and web with something like the rust wgpu library and using renderdoc for debugging/profiling. Which works well until the code stops working in the browser for whatever reason.

debugnik 2y ago

> Is it a deliberate attempt by Google to force people to Chrome? For the last several months, the YouTube player takes me several seconds to load on Firefox and freezes on me for a couple of seconds every other time I press play/pause... And changing the user agent fixed it! So I say yes. But I found the extensions to do so quite clunky so I gave up.

Animats 2y ago
> And changing the user agent fixed it! Send a note about that to the legal team at the Department of Justice managing the Google antitrust lawsuit.[1] [1] https://apnews.com/article/google-search-antitrust-case-59114d8bf1dc4c8453c08acaa4051f14 https://apnews.com/article/google-search-antitrust-case-5911...
recursive 2y ago
This is really annoying when it happens. Next time it starts, I'll definitely try the user agent thing. When loading youtube, when this is happening, (and sometimes it doesn't) the whole page locks up for a few seconds half-way through loading/rendering/hydrating. After that, it seems to do a CSS recalc/reflow. While waiting, it's impossible to do anything.

adastra22 2y ago

> On the other hand, there is absolutely no reason that Uber or Waymo needs to have an "app". Here’s one: I don’t give websites my location or the ability to interrupt me with notifications. Ever. I’ve blocked the browser from doing this entirely. I have Uber and Lyft apps installed and granted those permissions though.

ipaddr 2y ago
You could give only them location access then they wouldn't be able to see what apps are installed, contacts and family photos or listen on the mic. You are afraid of a browser so you give system access?
- SllX 2y ago
  What kind of phone are you running and how old is it? Apps don’t get any of that other information either unless you specifically approve it. If you want to give Uber just notifications and just location, you can do that.
  - fragmede 2y ago
    And even then, it only gets location access while it's running (if that's the access that's set). And doesn't get to run in the background either (if you say it's not allowed to).
  - Asmod4n 2y ago
    "When it's running" also means when it runs in the background, and apps can wake themselves up any time they want when you allow them to send you notifications.
    - SllX 2y ago
      Running location triggers an icon in the UI which puts it in a list of apps that have run location recently. An app abusing this in the background will eventually cause the operating system to ask you “hey, are you okay with this?” alongside a map of your current location as your phone sees it.

serial_dev 2y ago

> Anyone know what went wrong in there? Knowing, I don’t know, could be related though… Google Earth uses Flutter on web, too, which is in my opinion, the platform where Flutter is giving its users the worst experience. Though the root cause of the bug could also be non-Flutter related, because in Google Earth’s case, Flutter mainly just wraps the interesting bits (maps stuff in c++???) with a unified UI skin. And does Google break Firefox all the time on purpose? Good question… https://medium.com/flutter/extreme-ui-adaptability-in-flutter-how-google-earth-supports-every-use-case-on-earth-6db4661e7a17 https://medium.com/flutter/extreme-ui-adaptability-in-flutte...

nostromo 2y ago

Yes, Google has adopted lots of dark patterns. I use YouTube via browser (Safari or Brave) on mobile and it's clear they don't care about the mobile web experience at all - to the point it seems like they are deliberately trying to force you to use the app. I assume it's because they know the browsers support adblocking and limitations on tracking and notifications.

marxisttemp 2y ago
If you’re in the Apple ecosystem, I highly recommend the Vinegar extension which replaces the awful custom player with a standard HTML5 <video> element

xyzsparetimexyz 2y ago

>It's a subset of Vulkan - one command queue, and no bindless mode. Google proposes to fix that around December 2026. Yeah, WebGPU would be a good, modern API... If it was 2015 and not 2025. But now the differences between it and the desktop are widening and at a certain point, people will just break compatibility for the sake of convenience. I mean, theres not even an equivalent of vkCmdFillBuffer ffs! If you want to reset e.g. a indirect dispatch buffer in a command list, tour best bet is to have a buffer that contains uint32_t 1s and do copies.