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> On iOS iirc they don't even support adding PWAs to the homescreen? You've been able to add websites to the home screen going back at least to the iPhone 5 in

> On iOS iirc they don't even support adding PWAs to the homescreen? You've been able to add websites to the home screen going back at least to the iPhone 5 in 2012. Is it the "PWA" part you're questioning? iOS definitely does have PWA support, although with a few notable limitations that may be deal-breakers for certain apps. Oh, and apparently Apple recently disabled PWAs entirely in the EU.

xeromal 2y ago
One big missing piece is the inability for me to put an "Install" button like I can on android. I don't want to have to teach old people how to add to desktop
- below43 2y ago
  Yes, even Windows (Edge) prompts to install the PWA on the desktop. The "Add to Home Screen" process works well, but is obscure.
Anechoic 2y ago
Oh, and apparently Apple recently disabled PWAs entirely in the EU Apple reversed that decision back in March [0] (expand "Why don't users in the EU have access to Home Screen web apps?") [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu
- moffkalast 2y ago
  > The need to remove the capability was informed by the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps to support alternative browser engines that would require building a new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and iPadOS. This rationalization makes zero sense, it's just opening a standalone browser window from a convenient icon shortcut. They could even ignore the manifest.json entirely like Android does half the time anyway cause the implementation is buggy as all hell. I think the real reason was some kind of retaliation worthy of a baby insanity wolf meme because they were forced to stop reskinning Safari for all other browsers on iOS which was absolutely ridiculous in the first place.
  - brookst 2y ago
    Shows why guessing and gut feel are bad basis for opinions. In fact, Apple’s problem was that the PWA serviceworker runs as root, a bad decision made years ago. Enabling Chrome-hosted PWAs means Google gets root on those peoples’ phones. We can still lambast Apple and go all ad hom, but let’s stay factual?
    - moffkalast 2y ago
      Ok running something like that as root by design is enough of a self own from Apple that I really don't need to say anything more, hahaha
      - andrewflnr 2y ago
        Factual ad hom indeed.
    - urbandw311er 2y ago
      Not doubting you but care to share some links to back this up? I’d be interested to read more.
    - theK 2y ago
      Sounds like something very fixable though. Why is it so difficult for apple to fix the "engineering mistake" and move the PWA process to a less privileged user or even a jail?
    - rejhgadellaa 2y ago
      Service Workers do not require an installed PWA. Every regular website can have a PWA. I'm not sure who came up with this explanation for Apple trying to kill PWAs in Europe, but it makes zero sense.
      - rejhgadellaa 2y ago
        I meant to say "Every regular website can have a service worker", but can't edit anymore
- 6510 2y ago
  It is really quite complicated to do. Since you get some interesting functionality I had considered it but writing the page how to add the website to the home screen I couldn't imagine users doing this. My least favorite dark pattern is that you first have to change the share menu and add the option. That way it seems less inconvenient to people who've done it before. To share a fun perspective: Desktop desktops and phone home screens are really revolutionary compared to the browser bookmark menus and app stores are really web directories that are both glamorous and horrible at the same time. There is sabotage along the way but we are clearly moving forwards. Imagine an AI starting a thread or a sub forum for each application it can find online. Then have it gather articles about the application and post them as replies or topics. Divide everything neatly over categories (like a web directory) and have it gather usable icons/logos for navigation. By default it only displays software for the users platform or browser but a few check boxes in advanced search settings can change the selection.
panic 2y ago
In fact, home-screen web apps on iPhone OS predate third-party apps on the platform. Originally all third-party software was going to be installed this way.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  > Originally all third-party software was going to be installed this way. It's off topic, but I don't think this was true once the HTML Weather and Stocks 'widgets' failed on iOS. Anything Apple said publicly was just saving face until their SDK was ready for public consumption.
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    It was true. I developed iPhone OS web apps during that time.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]

xeromal 2y ago

One big missing piece is the inability for me to put an "Install" button like I can on android. I don't want to have to teach old people how to add to desktop

below43 2y ago
Yes, even Windows (Edge) prompts to install the PWA on the desktop. The "Add to Home Screen" process works well, but is obscure.

Anechoic 2y ago

Oh, and apparently Apple recently disabled PWAs entirely in the EU Apple reversed that decision back in March [0] (expand "Why don't users in the EU have access to Home Screen web apps?") [0] https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu

moffkalast 2y ago
> The need to remove the capability was informed by the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps to support alternative browser engines that would require building a new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and iPadOS. This rationalization makes zero sense, it's just opening a standalone browser window from a convenient icon shortcut. They could even ignore the manifest.json entirely like Android does half the time anyway cause the implementation is buggy as all hell. I think the real reason was some kind of retaliation worthy of a baby insanity wolf meme because they were forced to stop reskinning Safari for all other browsers on iOS which was absolutely ridiculous in the first place.
- brookst 2y ago
  Shows why guessing and gut feel are bad basis for opinions. In fact, Apple’s problem was that the PWA serviceworker runs as root, a bad decision made years ago. Enabling Chrome-hosted PWAs means Google gets root on those peoples’ phones. We can still lambast Apple and go all ad hom, but let’s stay factual?
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    Ok running something like that as root by design is enough of a self own from Apple that I really don't need to say anything more, hahaha
    - andrewflnr 2y ago
      Factual ad hom indeed.
  - urbandw311er 2y ago
    Not doubting you but care to share some links to back this up? I’d be interested to read more.
  - theK 2y ago
    Sounds like something very fixable though. Why is it so difficult for apple to fix the "engineering mistake" and move the PWA process to a less privileged user or even a jail?
  - rejhgadellaa 2y ago
    Service Workers do not require an installed PWA. Every regular website can have a PWA. I'm not sure who came up with this explanation for Apple trying to kill PWAs in Europe, but it makes zero sense.
    - rejhgadellaa 2y ago
      I meant to say "Every regular website can have a service worker", but can't edit anymore
6510 2y ago
It is really quite complicated to do. Since you get some interesting functionality I had considered it but writing the page how to add the website to the home screen I couldn't imagine users doing this. My least favorite dark pattern is that you first have to change the share menu and add the option. That way it seems less inconvenient to people who've done it before. To share a fun perspective: Desktop desktops and phone home screens are really revolutionary compared to the browser bookmark menus and app stores are really web directories that are both glamorous and horrible at the same time. There is sabotage along the way but we are clearly moving forwards. Imagine an AI starting a thread or a sub forum for each application it can find online. Then have it gather articles about the application and post them as replies or topics. Divide everything neatly over categories (like a web directory) and have it gather usable icons/logos for navigation. By default it only displays software for the users platform or browser but a few check boxes in advanced search settings can change the selection.

panic 2y ago

In fact, home-screen web apps on iPhone OS predate third-party apps on the platform. Originally all third-party software was going to be installed this way.

madeofpalk 2y ago
> Originally all third-party software was going to be installed this way. It's off topic, but I don't think this was true once the HTML Weather and Stocks 'widgets' failed on iOS. Anything Apple said publicly was just saving face until their SDK was ready for public consumption.
- reaperducer 2y ago
  It was true. I developed iPhone OS web apps during that time.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]