3 ms·

For-profit media is not journalism. It kind of used to be. There was a level of responsibility despite the organizations being for-profit. But I just cannot pr

For-profit media is not journalism. It kind of used to be. There was a level of responsibility despite the organizations being for-profit. But I just cannot pretend this is sufficiently true anymore.

kasey_junk 2y ago
What do you suppose journalism is and when do you propose that happened historically?
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  Stuff like Carreyrou’s investigation on Theranos feels like journalism. Where the objective is the truth, not ad impressions. I think both goals can sometimes find harmony and the revenue can support the journalistic endeavour. But that feels less and less true. A lot of for-profit media is optimizing heavily towards clicks, often at the very clear expense of the story. Such as not linking citations because thou shalt not guide eyeballs away from the website. I feel that journalism has immense social value (I’d call it an absolute necessity) and ideally it is funded publicly and uses the academic tenure style approach.
  - kasey_junk 2y ago
    I think you have a biased belief in the history of journalism. The news now is not in any way more optimized for selling content than the past commercial media. And the history of state run media is not particularly aligned with the idea that “the truth” was the goal.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    And Carreyou worked for the Wall Street Journal and, as I recall, left because he wasn't allowed to be paid for speaking. Public funding has its own set of conflicts; look at any history of public television/radio funding.
bee_rider 2y ago
By for-profit do you mean ad supported or something? I don’t really see any reason why journalism shouldn’t be for-profit. For example, a business model of producing informative articles and then selling access to those articles could be completely ethical, and a reasonable way to do journalism. Ad supported media is just a toxic business model though.
- ryaniscool 2y ago
  Hasn't ad supported media been the model for like 100 years or longer? The retail cost of print newspapers was to cover the cost of delivery and pay the retailers.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    I think there’s always been a mix? Anyway I’m, yeah, we didn’t invent being unethical at the turn of the millennium or anything like that.
  - jasdi 2y ago
    People who have issues with it, just don't get Broadcast (one to all) messaging has always been controlled by the ruling classes. Freedom of Speech can be given to everyone very generously, if Broadcasting (distribution) is controlled. During the hey days of newspapers without Postal subsidies/Railway subsidies and paper mill subsidies it was very expensive for publishers to ship tons of paper across the country everyday. Even today world wide lot of Govts run the Post Office and Railways. And they subsidize rates for newspapers and magazines. Good luck getting that subsidy if you piss off the wrong people. Same story repeats with licenses for radio/tv/satellite spectrum. Today its just Ads or control of the content factory (see who owns all the loss making news orgs in the land - Corporations). Ad supported just means who ever can bid most for the ad. And the Elites can outbid the plebs every day of the week.

For-profit media is not journalism. It kind of used to be. There was a level of responsibility despite the organizations being for-profit. But I just cannot pretend this is sufficiently true anymore.

kasey_junk 2y ago

What do you suppose journalism is and when do you propose that happened historically?

Waterluvian 2y ago
Stuff like Carreyrou’s investigation on Theranos feels like journalism. Where the objective is the truth, not ad impressions. I think both goals can sometimes find harmony and the revenue can support the journalistic endeavour. But that feels less and less true. A lot of for-profit media is optimizing heavily towards clicks, often at the very clear expense of the story. Such as not linking citations because thou shalt not guide eyeballs away from the website. I feel that journalism has immense social value (I’d call it an absolute necessity) and ideally it is funded publicly and uses the academic tenure style approach.
- kasey_junk 2y ago
  I think you have a biased belief in the history of journalism. The news now is not in any way more optimized for selling content than the past commercial media. And the history of state run media is not particularly aligned with the idea that “the truth” was the goal.
- ghaff 2y ago
  And Carreyou worked for the Wall Street Journal and, as I recall, left because he wasn't allowed to be paid for speaking. Public funding has its own set of conflicts; look at any history of public television/radio funding.

bee_rider 2y ago

By for-profit do you mean ad supported or something? I don’t really see any reason why journalism shouldn’t be for-profit. For example, a business model of producing informative articles and then selling access to those articles could be completely ethical, and a reasonable way to do journalism. Ad supported media is just a toxic business model though.

ryaniscool 2y ago
Hasn't ad supported media been the model for like 100 years or longer? The retail cost of print newspapers was to cover the cost of delivery and pay the retailers.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I think there’s always been a mix? Anyway I’m, yeah, we didn’t invent being unethical at the turn of the millennium or anything like that.
- jasdi 2y ago
  People who have issues with it, just don't get Broadcast (one to all) messaging has always been controlled by the ruling classes. Freedom of Speech can be given to everyone very generously, if Broadcasting (distribution) is controlled. During the hey days of newspapers without Postal subsidies/Railway subsidies and paper mill subsidies it was very expensive for publishers to ship tons of paper across the country everyday. Even today world wide lot of Govts run the Post Office and Railways. And they subsidize rates for newspapers and magazines. Good luck getting that subsidy if you piss off the wrong people. Same story repeats with licenses for radio/tv/satellite spectrum. Today its just Ads or control of the content factory (see who owns all the loss making news orgs in the land - Corporations). Ad supported just means who ever can bid most for the ad. And the Elites can outbid the plebs every day of the week.