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At one point, a streamer on Youtube asked his audience something like "Spam F's in chat [to signal that you like this thing I just did]" Hundreds of users got

by mapt 2y ago

At one point, a streamer on Youtube asked his audience something like "Spam F's in chat [to signal that you like this thing I just did]" Hundreds of users got banned by Youtube for spamming. But they didn't get banned from "Youtube". They got banned from "Google". They lost access to their Gmail, and to their Android login, and every other Google service, meaning they lost their phone text verification system for every other login, and quite possibly their password manager. Hundreds of identities were stolen and set on fire by an overly aggressive approach to spam management. I try to remember this failure mode in planning (or being unable to plan) the security of my online presence. Then I incorporate Elon Musk's recent behavior and recognize that while the profit motive _generally_ constrains the behavior of these firms, it's by no means assured. For basic social welfare, either this identity stuff needs to be heavily regulated or all of these big companies need to be broken up.

6510 2y ago
Even without malice or incompetence you will have false positives and false negatives. Then when you attempt to correct the mistake you will have false positives and false negatives again.
- feoren 2y ago
  Should a false positive from the YouTube anti-spam algorithm accidentally temp-ban someone from commenting on YouTube for a week, or should it permanently and irrevocably destroy their online presence, possibly preventing them from logging into anything online: email, banking, government services, paying their mortgage? Because the whole problem is that we're in the universe where the latter happens.
  - 6510 2y ago
    I see now how it sounds that way but I'm not making excuses. It was to describe the puzzle without all the emotional luggage. You need a system that gets it wrong, corrects it self then gets the correction wrong with infinite recursion. Instant judgement shooting from the hip without dialog or appeal is the dumbest way of doing things. Google isn't even trying.
boredtofears 2y ago
This legitimately terrifies me because it feels like a realistic eventual outcome — whether it’s via a careless automated system with no recourse or simply enshittification of an existing product due to leadership change. I’m so entrenched in various platform ecosystems I’m not even sure how to claw my way out of it.
UltraSane 2y ago
This is the exact scenario that led me to register my own domain name and email address on it.
- emuuscantly 2y ago
  Just remember if you ever give up your domain, whoever purchases it will now have your email as root-of-trust to EVERY site you ever created an account with. Also, it can be pricey. If you have a .com/.org it is cheap, but I have a .io and the price keeps doubling every few years. Also, it can be risky: and there is a very real risk that .io will be (rightly) reclaimed by the country that owns it and either seize the domains are really jack up the prices even more.
  - aftbit 2y ago
    Yeah I would suggest against using a ccTLD unless you have a strong connection to that country. Don't buy .io or .ai because they're trendy. Buy .com or .net or .dev or something else generic, or buy .co.uk if you live in the UK etc.
  - commandersaki 2y ago
    I have a .net which I register for 10 years at a time; and renew every 5-8 years in.
    - UltraSane 2y ago
      Don't you end up paying twice that way?
      - commandersaki 2y ago
        No? Your expiry just extends the number of years you add to the renewal.
        UltraSane 2y ago
        That makes sense.
dvngnt_ 2y ago
> Hundreds of users got banned by Youtube for spamming. is there a source for this? googling just brought me back here
- oefrha 2y ago
  I’ve heard this story quite a few times but it’s always hearsay without anything concrete enough to even begin to verify. Given that one account of mine got perma-banned on YouTube (for violating the “impersonation rule” with a bunch of screen recordings set to private…) and it didn’t affect the rest of the account, I have to assume the story is fake.
  - Prickle 2y ago
    https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtube-emote-spam-markiplier/ https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtub... It definitely was not fake. I saw plenty of uproar on the day it happened. I remember a number of tech channels also started to post videos on how to de-google right after that.
    - oefrha 2y ago
      Oh okay.
- Prickle 2y ago
  https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtube-emote-spam-markiplier/ https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtub... This article provides a good summary of events. The short of it, is that a YouTuber was Livestreaming. He asks viewers to spam certain emojis to select what path the streamer should take. Google's automated system detected the spam, and banned google accounts.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
miles 2y ago
I couldn't find any other source for that anecdote, but did find plenty of other reports: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26061935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26061935 Google users locked out after 15 years' use https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965432 I got locked out of my Google account for a month https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 Tell HN: Need help, locked out of Google account with 10 years of personal data https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42350245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42350245 Android user locked out of Google after moving cities https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004369 Ask HN: I'm a small business and Google locked me out https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22705122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22705122 Ask HN: Locked out of Google services with no recourse or explanation https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17428707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17428707 ASK HN: Google account disabled. Oh what to do? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=350968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=350968 Ask HN: Google just kicked me out of my account, no option to verify https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24709282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24709282 Man locked out of Google Drive and loses 9 year old photos after SIM Swap attack https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41915523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41915523 Ask HN: Locked out of Google Aps email with no recourse - advice? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9768593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9768593 When you get locked out of your Google account, what do you do? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31070914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31070914
- fermuch 2y ago
  Going from memory, the GP comment is from a Markiplier video where he created a "game" in which you choose what path to take. On the release stream he was asking people to "vote" which path to take, and IIRC it was by writting blue ball emoji or red ball emoji. People were banned and he took it personally. Contacted his internal youtube contacts and all. There should be videos about him talking of it.
  - mapt 2y ago

by mapt 2y ago

6510 2y ago

Even without malice or incompetence you will have false positives and false negatives. Then when you attempt to correct the mistake you will have false positives and false negatives again.

feoren 2y ago
Should a false positive from the YouTube anti-spam algorithm accidentally temp-ban someone from commenting on YouTube for a week, or should it permanently and irrevocably destroy their online presence, possibly preventing them from logging into anything online: email, banking, government services, paying their mortgage? Because the whole problem is that we're in the universe where the latter happens.
- 6510 2y ago
  I see now how it sounds that way but I'm not making excuses. It was to describe the puzzle without all the emotional luggage. You need a system that gets it wrong, corrects it self then gets the correction wrong with infinite recursion. Instant judgement shooting from the hip without dialog or appeal is the dumbest way of doing things. Google isn't even trying.

boredtofears 2y ago

This legitimately terrifies me because it feels like a realistic eventual outcome — whether it’s via a careless automated system with no recourse or simply enshittification of an existing product due to leadership change. I’m so entrenched in various platform ecosystems I’m not even sure how to claw my way out of it.

UltraSane 2y ago

This is the exact scenario that led me to register my own domain name and email address on it.

emuuscantly 2y ago
Just remember if you ever give up your domain, whoever purchases it will now have your email as root-of-trust to EVERY site you ever created an account with. Also, it can be pricey. If you have a .com/.org it is cheap, but I have a .io and the price keeps doubling every few years. Also, it can be risky: and there is a very real risk that .io will be (rightly) reclaimed by the country that owns it and either seize the domains are really jack up the prices even more.
- aftbit 2y ago
  Yeah I would suggest against using a ccTLD unless you have a strong connection to that country. Don't buy .io or .ai because they're trendy. Buy .com or .net or .dev or something else generic, or buy .co.uk if you live in the UK etc.
- commandersaki 2y ago
  I have a .net which I register for 10 years at a time; and renew every 5-8 years in.
  - UltraSane 2y ago
    Don't you end up paying twice that way?
    - commandersaki 2y ago
      No? Your expiry just extends the number of years you add to the renewal.
      - UltraSane 2y ago
        That makes sense.

dvngnt_ 2y ago

> Hundreds of users got banned by Youtube for spamming. is there a source for this? googling just brought me back here

oefrha 2y ago
I’ve heard this story quite a few times but it’s always hearsay without anything concrete enough to even begin to verify. Given that one account of mine got perma-banned on YouTube (for violating the “impersonation rule” with a bunch of screen recordings set to private…) and it didn’t affect the rest of the account, I have to assume the story is fake.
- Prickle 2y ago
  https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtube-emote-spam-markiplier/ https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtub... It definitely was not fake. I saw plenty of uproar on the day it happened. I remember a number of tech channels also started to post videos on how to de-google right after that.
  - oefrha 2y ago
    Oh okay.
Prickle 2y ago
https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtube-emote-spam-markiplier/ https://9to5google.com/2019/11/09/google-account-bans-youtub... This article provides a good summary of events. The short of it, is that a YouTuber was Livestreaming. He asks viewers to spam certain emojis to select what path the streamer should take. Google's automated system detected the spam, and banned google accounts.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

miles 2y ago

I couldn't find any other source for that anecdote, but did find plenty of other reports: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26061935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26061935 Google users locked out after 15 years' use https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965432 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24965432 I got locked out of my Google account for a month https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15989146 Tell HN: Need help, locked out of Google account with 10 years of personal data https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42350245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42350245 Android user locked out of Google after moving cities https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004369 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13004369 Ask HN: I'm a small business and Google locked me out https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22705122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22705122 Ask HN: Locked out of Google services with no recourse or explanation https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17428707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17428707 ASK HN: Google account disabled. Oh what to do? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=350968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=350968 Ask HN: Google just kicked me out of my account, no option to verify https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24709282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24709282 Man locked out of Google Drive and loses 9 year old photos after SIM Swap attack https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41915523 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41915523 Ask HN: Locked out of Google Aps email with no recourse - advice? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9768593 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9768593 When you get locked out of your Google account, what do you do? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31070914 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31070914

fermuch 2y ago
Going from memory, the GP comment is from a Markiplier video where he created a "game" in which you choose what path to take. On the release stream he was asking people to "vote" which path to take, and IIRC it was by writting blue ball emoji or red ball emoji. People were banned and he took it personally. Contacted his internal youtube contacts and all. There should be videos about him talking of it.
- mapt 2y ago