5 ms·

Right, it's so simple to make a good Bond film once you accept that you need to give the people what they want, people here being actual Bond fans (not "society

Right, it's so simple to make a good Bond film once you accept that you need to give the people what they want, people here being actual Bond fans (not "society") and what they want being classic male escapist fantasy. This push to "modernize" Bond is regressive once you realize male desire has not changed and thus there is nothing to modernize. Depictions of a cool spy dude getting beautiful women to fall for him is not "sexist" and not in need of modernization. More generally the "modernization" angle is all about making the films which appeal to both men and women, which is a losing proposition for Bond which is fundamentally a franchise for men. You are always going to create a more compelling piece of content by tailoring it to a specific group, and the vast gulf in the sorts of content men and women tend to enjoy (generalization of course with many exceptions, but generally true nonetheless) means any bridge spanning that gap will be flimsy and weak.

formerly_proven 2y ago
Bond could be bi.
- LordDragonfang 2y ago
  While I think this misses the above poster's point (Bond has always been a masculine-in-a-heterosexual-way fantasy, and going against that would alienate a majority of his core audience) it would be interesting to have a Jack Harkness type of Bond.
- jjgreen 2y ago
  Bond is bi https://www.licencetoqueer.com/blog/what-makes-you-think-this-is-the-first-time-assumption-possibility-and-bisexuality-in-bond https://www.licencetoqueer.com/blog/what-makes-you-think-thi...
  - 3pt14159 2y ago
    The post doesn’t definitively answer whether Bond is bisexual but argues for the importance of acknowledging the possibility. It highlights how the franchise’s ambiguity opens the door for diverse interpretations, inviting viewers to see Bond through their own lenses and experiences. Personally, I don't think Bond is bi.
- dsr_ 2y ago
  There are hints in the novels, but Fleming usually went with the default intolerance of the time.
scarface_74 2y ago
Do you really want to see Bond slapping women in 2024? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9hWeIjwLhs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9hWeIjwLhs
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- brickfaced 2y ago
  Yes
- altairprime 2y ago
  Yes please? If only TV and movies would show the full range of human sexuality and not just cater exclusively to the vanilla fetish crowd. To quote the immortal words of the Joffrey gif from Game of Thrones, “talk shit get hit” can be comedic, dramatic and, in a well-crafted context, sexy content in a movie. Romance novels and fanfic have been well aware of this for an eternity, and certainly pull no punches when it comes to people slapping. The issues with Bond are that he’s uniformly portrayed by white men who are only portrayed sleeping and slapping women. Give us a Bond who sleeps and slaps men with the same abandon that he does women, and interest in Bond movies will go through the roof. And: An intelligence agency that only employs straight male secret agents is an intelligence agency doomed to fail from the start. I have to hope someday that the Broccoli family grows a spine someday and shows us a Bond who is a woman, being just as much of an arrogant slut as Sean Connery’s Bond. They did a great job with that Bond, and certainly that’s a desirable archetype! It’s just gotten boring and overplayed to see that leading Bond role manner only played by the same boring and overplayed white men for decades now.
  - JustExAWS 2y ago
    > Yes please? If only TV and movies would show the full range of human sexuality and not just cater exclusively to the vanilla fetish crowd Did you watch the video? The flaps on the face had nothing to do with “sexuality”. It was Bond slapping women to get information out of them.
fatbird 2y ago
[flagged]
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Moore was unrealistic but the OP does not imply that we need to keep the style on the level of Roger Moore.
  - fatbird 2y ago
    OP is saying that the old Bonds (Connery, Lazenby, Moore) were suited to male tastes that haven't changed since, thus the attempt to modernize Bond is misguided at best. What I'm saying is that my (male) tastes have modernized, that the male tastes that made old Bonds popular are tastes I find gross and unrealistic today, and I don't feel like I'm alone.
    - vouaobrasil 2y ago
      I guess you're probably not.
    - some_random 2y ago
      I think the specifics are less important than the general tastes in this case, men still want to be highly trusted international "spies" gallivanting across the world fighting evil with women lusting after them every stop of the way, it's just that the details as to what that looks like have changed.
      - fatbird 2y ago
        I think the Craig movies are the high point so far of the series for a variety of reasons. They still have the swaggering machismo of Bond, but with more varied and interesting consequences. Bond still gets laid, but it's not treated as a mid-mission diversion (or post-mission reward) to which Bond is entitled. Craig proved there's lots of modernizing that can be done without touching the core conceit of being a 00 agent.
booleandilemma 2y ago
Give the people what they want indeed https://youtu.be/q2y9LPC2s_8?si=nwRPU3rw-Pi1JubX https://youtu.be/q2y9LPC2s_8?si=nwRPU3rw-Pi1JubX
Bud 2y ago
[dead]
matthewdgreen 2y ago
Mission Impossible scratches most of my Bond itch, and it doesn’t really have a lot of the womanizing stuff. What I want from Bond is for someone to steal a space shuttle.
- conductr 2y ago
  While I agree on the itch scratching. I also don’t necessarily feel like the type of womanizing I see in bond is a display of toxic masculinity. So, just because MI can be enjoyed without it doesn’t mean it needs to be culled in our modern world. I’m not a super fan but my impression/memory is most of the women that are being womanized are also extremely capable, strong, powerful, even deadly women and they’re usually always flirtatiously consenting in their exchanges. While I don’t need it, it does give me a different understanding of bond as a person/character than I know of the MI guy whose character’s name or personality outside of the mission I can’t even recall from memory. Bond is a holistic character. He’s whole life is a male fantasy. He’s suave , has an awesome job, cars, adventure, fights, etc. MI is just doubling down on the action and adventure part highlighting the physical capabilities of the main character. You don’t really care about his personality (perfect role for Tom Cruise imo) In any case, I feel like it’s become normal to characterize all masculinity as toxic and statements like yours is kind of like the “people who say only bad guys worry about privacy” to put a HN tech spin on it. You allowing and excusing it in a way and I feel like it’s a slippery slope
trhway 2y ago
Yesterday on NPR they said that during last 2 decades number of movies with sex decreased 40% and mentioned Marvel as a showcase. I guess that is modern escapism - very neutered, no sex and a lot of pointless and senseless, in all senses, [imitation of] violence. And judging by how much money it gets - that is what audiences want.
sapphicsnail 2y ago
You can have sexy women in your movies without being sexist. No one, aside from some crazy weirdoes, is telling men not to be horny. A lot of the bond girls are really boring characters that just exist to get fucked. Pierce Brosnan's character in The Thomas Crowne Affair is not that far off from his Bond persona but his love interest is an actual character and that movie is so much hotter.

formerly_proven 2y ago

Bond could be bi.

LordDragonfang 2y ago
While I think this misses the above poster's point (Bond has always been a masculine-in-a-heterosexual-way fantasy, and going against that would alienate a majority of his core audience) it would be interesting to have a Jack Harkness type of Bond.
jjgreen 2y ago
Bond is bi https://www.licencetoqueer.com/blog/what-makes-you-think-this-is-the-first-time-assumption-possibility-and-bisexuality-in-bond https://www.licencetoqueer.com/blog/what-makes-you-think-thi...
- 3pt14159 2y ago
  The post doesn’t definitively answer whether Bond is bisexual but argues for the importance of acknowledging the possibility. It highlights how the franchise’s ambiguity opens the door for diverse interpretations, inviting viewers to see Bond through their own lenses and experiences. Personally, I don't think Bond is bi.
dsr_ 2y ago
There are hints in the novels, but Fleming usually went with the default intolerance of the time.

scarface_74 2y ago

Do you really want to see Bond slapping women in 2024? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9hWeIjwLhs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-9hWeIjwLhs

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
brickfaced 2y ago
Yes
altairprime 2y ago
Yes please? If only TV and movies would show the full range of human sexuality and not just cater exclusively to the vanilla fetish crowd. To quote the immortal words of the Joffrey gif from Game of Thrones, “talk shit get hit” can be comedic, dramatic and, in a well-crafted context, sexy content in a movie. Romance novels and fanfic have been well aware of this for an eternity, and certainly pull no punches when it comes to people slapping. The issues with Bond are that he’s uniformly portrayed by white men who are only portrayed sleeping and slapping women. Give us a Bond who sleeps and slaps men with the same abandon that he does women, and interest in Bond movies will go through the roof. And: An intelligence agency that only employs straight male secret agents is an intelligence agency doomed to fail from the start. I have to hope someday that the Broccoli family grows a spine someday and shows us a Bond who is a woman, being just as much of an arrogant slut as Sean Connery’s Bond. They did a great job with that Bond, and certainly that’s a desirable archetype! It’s just gotten boring and overplayed to see that leading Bond role manner only played by the same boring and overplayed white men for decades now.
- JustExAWS 2y ago
  > Yes please? If only TV and movies would show the full range of human sexuality and not just cater exclusively to the vanilla fetish crowd Did you watch the video? The flaps on the face had nothing to do with “sexuality”. It was Bond slapping women to get information out of them.

fatbird 2y ago

[flagged]

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Moore was unrealistic but the OP does not imply that we need to keep the style on the level of Roger Moore.
- fatbird 2y ago
  OP is saying that the old Bonds (Connery, Lazenby, Moore) were suited to male tastes that haven't changed since, thus the attempt to modernize Bond is misguided at best. What I'm saying is that my (male) tastes have modernized, that the male tastes that made old Bonds popular are tastes I find gross and unrealistic today, and I don't feel like I'm alone.
  - vouaobrasil 2y ago
    I guess you're probably not.
  - some_random 2y ago
    I think the specifics are less important than the general tastes in this case, men still want to be highly trusted international "spies" gallivanting across the world fighting evil with women lusting after them every stop of the way, it's just that the details as to what that looks like have changed.
    - fatbird 2y ago
      I think the Craig movies are the high point so far of the series for a variety of reasons. They still have the swaggering machismo of Bond, but with more varied and interesting consequences. Bond still gets laid, but it's not treated as a mid-mission diversion (or post-mission reward) to which Bond is entitled. Craig proved there's lots of modernizing that can be done without touching the core conceit of being a 00 agent.

booleandilemma 2y ago

Give the people what they want indeed https://youtu.be/q2y9LPC2s_8?si=nwRPU3rw-Pi1JubX https://youtu.be/q2y9LPC2s_8?si=nwRPU3rw-Pi1JubX

Bud 2y ago

[dead]

matthewdgreen 2y ago

Mission Impossible scratches most of my Bond itch, and it doesn’t really have a lot of the womanizing stuff. What I want from Bond is for someone to steal a space shuttle.

conductr 2y ago
While I agree on the itch scratching. I also don’t necessarily feel like the type of womanizing I see in bond is a display of toxic masculinity. So, just because MI can be enjoyed without it doesn’t mean it needs to be culled in our modern world. I’m not a super fan but my impression/memory is most of the women that are being womanized are also extremely capable, strong, powerful, even deadly women and they’re usually always flirtatiously consenting in their exchanges. While I don’t need it, it does give me a different understanding of bond as a person/character than I know of the MI guy whose character’s name or personality outside of the mission I can’t even recall from memory. Bond is a holistic character. He’s whole life is a male fantasy. He’s suave , has an awesome job, cars, adventure, fights, etc. MI is just doubling down on the action and adventure part highlighting the physical capabilities of the main character. You don’t really care about his personality (perfect role for Tom Cruise imo) In any case, I feel like it’s become normal to characterize all masculinity as toxic and statements like yours is kind of like the “people who say only bad guys worry about privacy” to put a HN tech spin on it. You allowing and excusing it in a way and I feel like it’s a slippery slope

trhway 2y ago

Yesterday on NPR they said that during last 2 decades number of movies with sex decreased 40% and mentioned Marvel as a showcase. I guess that is modern escapism - very neutered, no sex and a lot of pointless and senseless, in all senses, [imitation of] violence. And judging by how much money it gets - that is what audiences want.

sapphicsnail 2y ago

You can have sexy women in your movies without being sexist. No one, aside from some crazy weirdoes, is telling men not to be horny. A lot of the bond girls are really boring characters that just exist to get fucked. Pierce Brosnan's character in The Thomas Crowne Affair is not that far off from his Bond persona but his love interest is an actual character and that movie is so much hotter.