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ShredOS – Secure disk erasure/wipe
- monica46cole 2y ago[dead]
- robobro 2y agoDBAN for a new generation. This is pretty cool. So far DBAN is still getting the job done for me, but this looks like a solid replacement.
- ngetchell 2y agoI don't think DBAN works on SSDs. The inner workings of the device tricks DBAN into thinking it is zeroing out parts of the drive but it is not. That and the fact that SSDs hold back part of the usable storage for optimizations means DBAN can't even seen the whole drive.
- mmooss 2y agoNeither does nwipe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42568171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42568171
- 0dayz 2y agoI always wondered what is the difference between OS level secure erasure and software level secure erasure?
- daneel_w 2y agoIf you are refering to EFI/BIOS level secure erase, it's for hardware-encrypted storage and the function merely replaces the current master key such that the current data becomes irretrievable.
- borlox 2y agoPretty cool UX, however it seems to follow the approach to overwrite data once or multiple times. As far as legends on the high magic of contemporary flash memory goes, you would want to simply tell your SSD/NVMe to secure erase the drive instead of writing data yourself. ShredOS doesn‘t seem to implement this.
- upofadown 2y agoFrom the nwipe (what this uses) page: >In the current form nwipe does not sanitize solid state drives (hereinafter referred to as SSDs) of any form (SAS / Sata / NVME) and / or form factor (2.5" / 3.5" / PCI) fully due to their nature: ... https://github.com/martijnvanbrummelen/nwipe https://github.com/martijnvanbrummelen/nwipe The ShredOS page suggests the use of hdparm for SSDs but things are fairly complicated: * https://github.com/martijnvanbrummelen/nwipe/blob/master/ssd-guide.md https://github.com/martijnvanbrummelen/nwipe/blob/master/ssd...
- XorNot 2y agoThese days I'd just take a hammer to a dead SSD and smash the chips to powder.
- daneel_w 2y agoI haven't found a technical whitepaper on it but supposedly NAND/NOR flash goes void immediately when reaching a certain high temperature below the melting point of copper. Something about putting a blow torch to the chips for a brief moment...
- UnlockedSecrets 2y agoHammer sounds easier to verify the destruction worked.
- Xen9 2y agoStartup idea: Industrial portable just drill-holes-to-you-device-if-needed & then just-add-water data-erasure bags (single-use, safe to throw away). Would save lots of equipment weight.
- throw0101b 2y ago> https://github.com/martijnvanbrummelen/nwipe/blob/master/ssd-guide.md https://github.com/martijnvanbrummelen/nwipe/blob/master/ssd... Yeah: > Given that the support for sanitization is optional and not a mandatory aspect of the respective standards the support accross vendors can vary largely. The following table does not claim or warrant to be complete, it is highly advised to always validate the information with the manufacturer: It'd be nice if the INCITS/SATA/SAS folks could make it mandatory.
- cedws 2y agoSoftware erasure is no good on modern hardware, it pulls too many tricks internally and the data could easily stick around in a region of NAND not accessible. There’s an easier way - use full disk encryption with a TPM. Data effectively erased upon destruction of TPM key.
- jeroenhd 2y agoThis is often how secure erase is implemented on SSD (though they often don't use TPMs). Encrypting data transparently on the controller, then regenerating the key on erasure request, turning the data on disk into useless bits. Of course this comes with the risk that someone exploits the firmware and extracts the key, rendering secure erase useless, but in most cases that's good enough.
- panarky 2y agoWhen a new key is generated, how can you be certain that the old key is securely deleted?
- chipsa 2y agoDrives which support doing this in hardware have a block just for storing the key. Because it’s not often rewritten, it doesn’t need to go in the pool of blocks that can get remapped.
- Gigachad 2y agoYou have to trust the SSD firmware. And if you don’t, just add your own layer of encryption and manage the key yourself.
- mmooss 2y agoHow do you be certain that ShredOS or any other component does its job? You can always physically burn the drive, but make sure you actually watch it turn to slag.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
- daneel_w 2y agoBarebones alternative for *nix people: just "dd" random data over the entire disk. A single pass suffices because there is no such thing as "gleanable history" on the sectors of magnetic storage - nor for flash storage, but the complexity of spare/reserved memory blocks on SSDs may result in data escaping the procedure.
- yonatan8070 2y agoIf any data "escapes" the full disk overwrite on an SSD, is it still somehow readable from software? Or would it require disassembly of the drive and specialized tools?
- daneel_w 2y agoYou won't be able to read those blocks in any normal way. I don't know if the specialized set of "block remap/reassign" commands in SCSI, or in S.M.A.R.T, can be used to reach the blocks.
- fmajid 2y agoIt's 2024, and you have: nvme format -s1 /dev/nvme0n1 to use secure erase on your NVMe drives, with similar commands available under hdparm for SATA drives: https://grok.lsu.edu/Article.aspx?articleid=16716 https://grok.lsu.edu/Article.aspx?articleid=16716 The "DoD style" erase commands no longer provide adequate security for highly virtualized I/O devices like SSDs where blocks may be remapped as spares out of the directly accessible range and thus skipped by the pass. In fact, the DoD itself stipulates only physical destruction of hard drives is acceptable, and many bases have secure warehouses where old drives are stocked awaiting destruction.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y agoIs this very different from using a bootable Linux distribution from a disc or USB drive to then wipe a disk drive? And as someone else pointed out here, with solid-state drives being more popular these days, these techniques are not sufficient.
- m3kw9 2y agohow hard is it to just flip bits on every single available memory? Is it because you have to use the manufacturer's black box controllers and you don't really know if they actually do what you asked?
- daneel_w 2y agoYes, that's exactly what the problem with flash storage is. A single pass of overwriting all nominal storage is pretty close to wiping the entire disk - the spare blocks are limited in number - but with SSDs there's just no easy way to know what may be left behind on eventual bad blocks that have been replaced by spares. So-called "hybrid" HDDs that are fronted by a small SSD to give the impression of faster writes are subject to these complications as well.
- amelius 2y ago> PRNG Stream - Fills the device with a stream from the PRNG. How are you going to explain to the TSA officer that the disk does not contain encrypted data?
- rogerrogerr 2y agoDoes TSA ever inspect hard drives at the bit level?
- bink 2y agoImagine being lectured on entropy by a TSA agent with an electron microscope.
- yencabulator 2y agoIf you care, do a final pass with zeroes. (IMHO the very concept is obsolete in the era of SSDs & SMR.)
- mystified5016 2y agoThere is no way to prove that random data is not actually encrypted data. This is a feature called plausible deniability
- farhaven 2y ago"Alright ma'am, you claim this here device contains encrypted data? If you don't mind, we'll keep you here until you provide us with the password." and meanwhile in an alternate universe "So you say that this device just happens to contain a bunch of random data? That sounds mighty suspicious. We'll keep you here until our technicians have taken a look at it. Get comfy, it'll be a while."
- slicktux 2y ago“In the current form nwipe does not sanitize solid state drives (hereinafter referred to as SSDs) of any form (SAS / Sata / NVME) and / or form factor (2.5" / 3.5" / PCI) fully due to their nature: SSDs, as the transistors contained in the memory modules are subject to wear, contain in most cases additional memory modules installed as failover for broken sectors outside of the host accessible space (frequently referred to as "overprovisioning") and for garbage collection.” Interesting and that they don’t mention Enhanced Security Erasure; that SATA command would take care of the broken sectors and firmware reserved sectors. HDPARM is capable of issuing the command if the SSD/HDD supports it and HDPARM is the tool they seem to be using. Not sure what they are using for NVME though as they use PCIE…not SATA commands. Maybe sedutil from OPAL? Anywho, tor most drives whether SSD, HDD or NVME you can ‘erase’ it by simply setting and deleting my the KEK and UEK but to securely erase you want to do security enhanced erase data command that runs locally in the drive and is independent of the OS.
- mindcrash 2y agoI was told absolutely secure disk erasure is actually no longer needed on SSDs due to TRIM. It however _is_ absolutely necessary for magnetic media (HDD even when supported by SSD, and tape). But in both cases, if you want to be _absolutely_ sure nobody can read data from a drive after parting with it use Bitlocker (Windows), FileVault (Mac) or LUKS/dm-crypt (Linux/BSD)