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This is a step in the right direction but still doesn't address my biggest concern with e-waste - the battery. Because almost none of the electronics you buy c
by smarkov 2y ago
This is a step in the right direction but still doesn't address my biggest concern with e-waste - the battery.
Because almost none of the electronics you buy come with a replaceable battery, the second you buy something and use it on a regular basis it's destined to die and be thrown out within the next 4-8ish years due to the battery degrading and becoming increasingly more dangerous to keep around. Something that might be in perfect working condition and could be used for another 10 years has to be thrown out because of one single component.
I understand that batteries come in all shapes, sizes, capacities, yada yada, but imagine if we had standard rechargeable batteries like we have standard non-rechargeable batteries and things were built in a way where you could easily replace batteries like we could on phones a decade ago. You would double or triple the lifespan of a ton of things.
- edflsafoiewq 2y agoEU regulations requiring portable batteries to be removable/replaceable by the end-user take effect February 18, 2027.
- maeil 2y agoI'll believe it when I see it. With the way the EU has been going, good chance it will get shelved before it goes into effect.
- Kbelicius 2y agoWhat other rules have been shelved after the date of it coming to effect have been announced?
- Someone 2y agoThat is not 100% correct. The wording (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti..., page 55) is “portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by end users or by independent operators”
- alkonaut 2y agoThat’s not very clear. How easy is ”readily”? I replaced a few and found the biggest obstacle being the glue they use to keep them in place inside (they must sit in compartments larger than the battery since it changes size). But would it be enough to not have glue and instead Velcro there? Would still require plugging and unplugging tiny cables and screwing out 20 tiny screws. Or does ”readily” mean ”hatch”? Not so sure people want hatches…
- whitehexagon 2y agoStandardized and widely available batteries would also be a huge step forward. Like the old nokia phone batteries that you could pick up anywhere. Recently I started buying gadgets that have 18650 batteries, seems about the only standard around, but trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge. I even tried a couple European Amzn stores, but they only seem to have third party suppliers. It put me off from buying the MNT Reform even though I love the concept. And the 18650 USB torch I bought has some stupid propriety magnetic connector on one end, so I'd say any such legislation should include both ends of these charger cables.
- seba_dos1 2y ago> trying to buy the batteries has been a challenge Huh? I had no trouble getting 18650 batteries in the EU. They're everywhere, both protected and unprotected cells; lots of brands to choose from, including cheap unbranded ones. You can even get ones with built-in USB-C socket for charging.
- Dalewyn 2y agoI'm going to assume something got lost in this game of telephone because this otherwise sounds like an oxymoron: Of course a "portable" battery would be removable and replacable.
- edflsafoiewq 2y agoThe battery in my phone is portable (I carry it around) but not removable without specialized tools. It's REGULATION (EU) 2023/1542 if you want to read it. > ‘portable battery’ means a battery that is sealed, weighs 5 kg or less, is not designed specifically for industrial use and is neither an electric vehicle battery, an LMT battery, nor an SLI battery > [...] > A portable battery shall be considered readily removable by the end-user where it can be removed from a product with the use of commercially available tools, without requiring the use of specialised tools, unless provided free of charge with the product, proprietary tools, thermal energy, or solvents to disassemble the product.
- Dalewyn 2y agoI think I see where I got tripped up. Essentially, they're saying all batteries in portable electronics will be portable by 2027 and defined as so-and-so; not that batteries today are portable and will be made compliant as defined so-and-so. Because I think we can all agree: The battery on an ICOM walkie-talkie is portable, the battery in an Apple iPhone is not portable.
- mark-r 2y agoNo, we cannot all agree. I think your definition of "portable" is not compatible with most people's. You seem to be conflating portable and removable; those are two different properties that do not have to coexist. If the battery in your iPhone was not portable, you would not be able to move your iPhone.
- Dalewyn 2y agoGiven no further context, when I hear "portable battery" I think of a battery that is portable in itself. An iPhone is portable, but the battery embedded in it isn't. Contrast the battery pack that something like an ICOM walkie talkie would have, which is portable in itself. Other ways to see it: An Electron program is portable, a .exe program is not portable; they are both programs. A stick of RAM is portable, soldered RAM on a motherboard or in a CPU is not portable; they are both RAM.
- smarkov 2y agoHuh, I've heard about this for a while but for some reason thought it was strictly regarding phones, maybe because they've been making the biggest headlines about it. Looking forward to it then.
- Reason077 2y agoApple have already been taking steps to comply with this, with new “electrically-induced adhesive debonding” glue used to secure the iPhone 16 battery, instead of the problematic "stretch to remove" adhesive strips. Apparantely this makes it significantly easier to change the battery compared to previous models: https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-batteries-easier-to-replace/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/09/11/apple-makes-iphone-16-b...
- postepowanieadm 2y agoEU cant deal with single use e-cigarettes! Just think about how much e-waste they generate, for years nothing has been done about it. On the contrary: when recently Polish government considered banning them, they have stepped down because it would require notifying the EU(also "lobbying" aka corruption. One person present at the meeting when the matter was discussed couldn't recall on whose behalf he was there, but treated to sue if called a lobbyist).
- raverbashing 2y agoI think Ireland has banned single use vape devices, seems like Poland had a different issue
- alkonaut 2y agoWhich devices don’t have replaceable batteries? No iPhone had a battery that couldn’t be replaced for maybe 10% or the purchase cost or so. Why do people consider a smartphone with a degraded battery ”e-waste”? Just go have the battery replaced?
- AdrianB1 2y agoMy Asus ZenFone 3 - I cannot find a battery for it, so it is now permanently connected to an USB cable doing other stuff than being a mobile phone. There is a huge diversity in phone and battery models, it is easy to find a replacement for some, difficult or impossible for others.
- oulipo 2y agoAt least for e-bike battery, that's precisely what we're building at https://get.gouach.com https://get.gouach.com :)
- ceejayoz 2y ago> You would double or triple the lifespan of a ton of things. Until they get dropped in the toilet. Phones have gotten more waterproof as the batteries have gotten more permanently secured (not to mention induction charging). It's not a spurious correlation.
- smarkov 2y agoI'm not denying that there are some trade-offs, but I'm also not strictly speaking about phones here. Think electric toothbrushes, trimmers, Bluetooth speakers and the other endless amounts of electric things with rechargeable batteries that don't have the space constraints of a phone.
- ceejayoz 2y agoEach of the items you've highlighted are also quite likely to encounter water.
- Kirby64 2y ago> electric toothbrushes If anything, sealing electric toothbrushes is even more paramount than a phone. The normal use case is literally getting it wet through use. Also, anecdotally, I’ve never had a sonicare toothbrush battery die. They still last weeks after many many years of use.
- smarkov 2y agoIt's not my area of expertise so I might just be delusional here, but from my understanding phones are difficult to make waterproof if they had replaceable batteries because they require a massive lid that spans across the entire phone while having a limited amount of thickness to work with and also because they have some expectations about the depth at which they remain waterproof. You don't necessarily have these constraints with a toothbrush. You can have a small opening at the bottom where you insert a tall battery and have plenty of height left to make a waterproof hatch. You're also unlikely to submerge your toothbrush in more than 50cm of water, like in the event of dropping it in the bathtub. > Also, anecdotally, I’ve never had a sonicare toothbrush battery die. They still last weeks after many many years of use. Sure, these exist too, though it doesn't reflect the majority of items which cheap out on all components, including batteries.
- kelnos 2y agoThe thing that really annoys me is that batteries in most phones are indeed replaceable, but so many people just trash their phone when the battery life gets bad. Sure, many/most of these phones don't have a user replaceable battery, but even for high-end phones you can get the battery replaced for under $100 (and that's on the high end; for many you can get it done for half that). I don't know if this is an education problem or what. Maybe manufacturers make it less obvious that you can get batteries replaced, because doing so would hurt sales of new phones. I dunno. Sure, in an ideal world standardized batteries would be available off the shelf, and regular people could replace theirs with standard or even no tools. But honestly, I don't think the world we live in is that terrible when it comes to this.
- Krssst 2y agoUnfortunately, after a few years lack of security updates will also force plenty of users to upgrade.
- ninalanyon 2y agoI could have had someone replace the battery in my Moto G%+ a couple of years ago. But it would have cost at least 800 NOK (about 80 USD). Instead I bought a Moto G30 for 1 200 NOK (about 120 USD) which has a better camera, faster processor, and more storage space. Mobile phones haven't yet reached the point of diminishing returns on power, cameras, etc., so it doesn't yet make economical sense for an individual to keep the old devices working. I have kept the Moto G5+ and I use it as an internet radio and to listen to podcasts so it isn't a complete waste. Unfortunately the battery is now in such a poor state that I have to keep it on a timer to cut off charging frequently to avoid overheating. Android could of course make batteries last longer by giving the user control over the charging regime.
- thayne 2y agoFor a 4-5 year phone "under $100" still might be more than the phone is worth. And then there is the other problem that an old enough phone is no longer getting software updates, including security updates either. Yes, it is still probably less than buying a new phone but you don't know how long it will be before another component dies. If replacing the battery gives you another 4-5 years it might be worth it, but if something else is going to break in a couple months, probably not.
- ggreer 2y agoRemovable batteries are a trade-off. They improve repairability and device longevity, but they increase manufacturing costs, reduce the effectiveness of waterproofing, and increase customer support issues. Battery contacts can degrade or become loose, causing phones to power off unexpectedly when handled roughly. Customers buy cheap 3rd party batteries and then complain to the phone manufacturer when battery life is poor. In some cases, 3rd party batteries malfunction and damage the phone (or even cause injury), and the customer blames the phone manufacturer. Samsung and Apple don't want to see news articles about their phones blowing up, even if it's obviously not their fault. And yes, they do tend to sell more phones if they use integrated batteries. Rather than mandating a specific solution, a better strategy would be to tax electronic waste so that manufacturers have more financial incentive to make phones that last longer. It might also be helpful to limit the liability of anyone who sells phones with removable batteries, or have more standards for battery manufacturers, as most malfunctions will be due to 3rd party batteries.
- hulitu 2y ago> reduce the effectiveness of waterproofing If your phone has a hole (usually the charging port), the water will get in.
- viraptor 2y agoThat's just wrong. A port is not necessarily a hole through the case. It may be just a concave area. The water doesn't necessarily get in through ports either - there's lots of water-tight designs there.
- Dilettante_ 2y agoThat's like saying you get water into your brain through your earholes when diving
- bmicraft 2y agoThe Galaxy S5 had a replaceable battery and IP67 10 years ago. It's not that hard.
- 6451937099 2y ago[dead]
- guerrilla 2y agoYou have the money. Buy things with replacable batteries. Fairphone 5, Google Pixel, Saksung Galaxy Xcover. These are all good phones. Encourage your friends to get them too. Let's make it the norm. Boycott locked-down unfixable hardware.
- portaouflop 2y agoOften for me not the hardware was the bottleneck but the software - I had some old phones which became unusable because half of the essential software would not work anymore on the outdated android versions - same with iPhone, it gets updates for some years but if I can’t use e.g my banking app the phone is useless - these ungodly apps are half the reason I am forced to use this machine in the first place…