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What do you mean? Only way I can think of is social media advertising revenue going to big tech instead of local media. But a net negative effect on non-US econ

What do you mean? Only way I can think of is social media advertising revenue going to big tech instead of local media. But a net negative effect on non-US economies seems hard to believe.

Yoric 2y ago
How much money does country X spend paying Windows or MS Office or Photoshop, simply as the cost of doing business? And it's not that any other country couldn't – technologically – come up with a competitor to Windows, MS Office or Photoshop, it's that it is basically impossible for a non-US product to gain any traction in the tech world, for reasons that are both economical and legal. In fact, in many tech domains, the best that a non-US company can hope for if they want their product to be successful is to be bought by a US company. Seen from the rest of the world, the has spent the last few decades killing the software and hardware industry of everybody else through practices that feel very much like a combination of a tax on tech and an abuse of monopoly. If you wonder, the rest of the world doesn't quite see any difference between the "unfair" practices of which US Conservatives accuse China and the practices that the US has adopted for the last 40+ years in a number of domains when it comes to becoming/remaining the dominant player in a number of fields.
maeil 2y ago
Every euro/yen/.. spent by German/Japanese/.. residents on US tech is one that goes to big tech. Every minute spent consuming US tech (Meta et al) is one spent not consuming something that benefits local society. Enormous net negative, and I'm lucky enough to be part of the poster child society that shows just how much better the alternative is: South Korea. And even here people still use lots of US tech (Instagram is huge), just much less of it, in every case at massive net benefit to Korean society as a whole.
- binary132 2y ago
  I am not aware of the South Korean software ecosystem, can you share a bit more info or point us to some? It sounds cool, I’m very interested in localized economies and software.
  - maeil 2y ago
    Korea is one of the 4 countries that I know of where a non-Google firm holds significant market share in search. One of only 2 democracies, the other being Japan. And Japan is ambiguous as their local player (Yahoo Japan) has been using Google for indexing for years (but is now switching). Instant messaging, online payments, online shopping, second hand market place, domestic hotel bookings, email are all local tech companies. Food delivery was local for very long, now technically acquired by foreign company but run independently as local tech. Taxi apps have been local for very long, though Uber's presence is growing - but even there they got into the market by acquiring a local player and running them relatively independently afaik (less sure about this one). Even then, majority of market share is still non-Uber locals. Anything finance-related is local. Maps are local. Gaming streams was Twitch+Local but is now local only. Despite Android enjoying >90% market share for 10+ years (now rapidly losing to iOS, I'd say among age 20-30 iOS is >40%), the only Google products that have been popular were Youtube and Chrome. Gmail somewhat. Even the dating app market here is dominated by local players. This is the only case I can think of where the result is actually worse than if it wasn't, which is quite a feat considering just how awful Tinder and friends are. The only US apps that dominates its field here is Instagram. Chrome and Youtube do as well but gained that purely through default and PC usage. Netflix and Disney+ are popular by virtue of original content, but sports are local players. Spotify to an extent, but again, nowhere near 90% market share like US or Europe. For obvious reasons, most tourists and short-term foreigners here hate all of this. But frankly their opinions should be ignored. Despite being a foreigner as well it's clear as day that it's much better for everyone else. The local replacement of Google maps is the easiest example, I've written a little about it here [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046
    - dhcpserver 2y ago
      This is really great insight; thanks for sharing. China is another country that has developed its own local apps, mainly because many global ones are banned there. Even if Google, Uber, and others had free rein, I don’t think they could compete with the existing options. The local apps are so tuned to Chinese culture, an American app just wouldn't be intuitive to them. Do you think the local apps, aside from dating, are better than their U.S. counterparts, or is it mainly due to their strong local momentum? Could the Western apps compete in that market? It sounds like Uber is making some inroads.

What do you mean? Only way I can think of is social media advertising revenue going to big tech instead of local media. But a net negative effect on non-US economies seems hard to believe.

Yoric 2y ago

How much money does country X spend paying Windows or MS Office or Photoshop, simply as the cost of doing business? And it's not that any other country couldn't – technologically – come up with a competitor to Windows, MS Office or Photoshop, it's that it is basically impossible for a non-US product to gain any traction in the tech world, for reasons that are both economical and legal. In fact, in many tech domains, the best that a non-US company can hope for if they want their product to be successful is to be bought by a US company. Seen from the rest of the world, the has spent the last few decades killing the software and hardware industry of everybody else through practices that feel very much like a combination of a tax on tech and an abuse of monopoly. If you wonder, the rest of the world doesn't quite see any difference between the "unfair" practices of which US Conservatives accuse China and the practices that the US has adopted for the last 40+ years in a number of domains when it comes to becoming/remaining the dominant player in a number of fields.

maeil 2y ago

Every euro/yen/.. spent by German/Japanese/.. residents on US tech is one that goes to big tech. Every minute spent consuming US tech (Meta et al) is one spent not consuming something that benefits local society. Enormous net negative, and I'm lucky enough to be part of the poster child society that shows just how much better the alternative is: South Korea. And even here people still use lots of US tech (Instagram is huge), just much less of it, in every case at massive net benefit to Korean society as a whole.

binary132 2y ago
I am not aware of the South Korean software ecosystem, can you share a bit more info or point us to some? It sounds cool, I’m very interested in localized economies and software.
- maeil 2y ago
  Korea is one of the 4 countries that I know of where a non-Google firm holds significant market share in search. One of only 2 democracies, the other being Japan. And Japan is ambiguous as their local player (Yahoo Japan) has been using Google for indexing for years (but is now switching). Instant messaging, online payments, online shopping, second hand market place, domestic hotel bookings, email are all local tech companies. Food delivery was local for very long, now technically acquired by foreign company but run independently as local tech. Taxi apps have been local for very long, though Uber's presence is growing - but even there they got into the market by acquiring a local player and running them relatively independently afaik (less sure about this one). Even then, majority of market share is still non-Uber locals. Anything finance-related is local. Maps are local. Gaming streams was Twitch+Local but is now local only. Despite Android enjoying >90% market share for 10+ years (now rapidly losing to iOS, I'd say among age 20-30 iOS is >40%), the only Google products that have been popular were Youtube and Chrome. Gmail somewhat. Even the dating app market here is dominated by local players. This is the only case I can think of where the result is actually worse than if it wasn't, which is quite a feat considering just how awful Tinder and friends are. The only US apps that dominates its field here is Instagram. Chrome and Youtube do as well but gained that purely through default and PC usage. Netflix and Disney+ are popular by virtue of original content, but sports are local players. Spotify to an extent, but again, nowhere near 90% market share like US or Europe. For obvious reasons, most tourists and short-term foreigners here hate all of this. But frankly their opinions should be ignored. Despite being a foreigner as well it's clear as day that it's much better for everyone else. The local replacement of Google maps is the easiest example, I've written a little about it here [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42286046
  - dhcpserver 2y ago
    This is really great insight; thanks for sharing. China is another country that has developed its own local apps, mainly because many global ones are banned there. Even if Google, Uber, and others had free rein, I don’t think they could compete with the existing options. The local apps are so tuned to Chinese culture, an American app just wouldn't be intuitive to them. Do you think the local apps, aside from dating, are better than their U.S. counterparts, or is it mainly due to their strong local momentum? Could the Western apps compete in that market? It sounds like Uber is making some inroads.