13 ms·

The only part of this that is totally implausible is the notion that Magnus wouldn't be super familiar with the rules. I'm not saying I agree with the rule or

by epgui 2y ago

The only part of this that is totally implausible is the notion that Magnus wouldn't be super familiar with the rules. I'm not saying I agree with the rule or the specific way it was applied... But Magnus definitely knows the rules. Edit: for people downvoting... Can you please explain how the world's best chess player of all times wouldn't be familiar with FIDE rules? How is that even plausible? All of the players who compete at these events know the rules.

thelock85 2y ago
Agreed. I’m just thinking about NFL players who have crazy wardrobe leeway in and out of games, but somehow adhere to the minutiae of game time uniform codes. Not because of the insane attention they put into their craft, but because of clear financial or competitive penalties for doing otherwise (that impacts people and time invested in them).
- eszed 2y ago
  That's because the team's equipment managers lay all of their gear out for them. I doubt any player could confidently answer a minutae-level question about the league's uniform policy.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Not totally true. All NFL teams have dress codes. Some of those players with flamboyant outfits actually pay fines every week. They justify the fines as part of the cost of promoting an individual brand over the team brand or image.
wirrbel 2y ago
[flagged]
- beepbopboopp 2y ago
  How are you going to invent his intentions and then judge him for your inventions? This message board deserves better, the people deserve better.
  - epgui 2y ago
    While I don't think it's fair to presume anything about his intentions, it's totally fair to presume he is aware of the rules. He's the world's best chess player of all time, and it's not his first FIDE event.
    - codr7 2y ago
      I think it's totally fair to ask the question, given that he seems to be involved in starting a competing organization.
    - astrange 2y ago
      > He's the world's best chess player of all time This one is hard to tell because not all of them have been alive at the same time. Morphy was really, really good, but in the 1850s. Currently there's Ivanchuk, who is good enough to beat anyone but has no stamina so can't win tournaments reliably enough to be world champion.
      - epgui 2y ago
        There’s no way Morphy at his peak would beat Magnus at his peak (and the same goes for any of the old champions)— The way chess is played today is very different. Morphy would have needed to start from scratch and re-learn the game today from a young age to have any chance… But then he wouldn’t be the same Morphy.
        gambiting 2y ago
        Or maybe Magnus wouldn't be able to cope with how Morphy plays the game and would lose. Both of them were/are used to how the game was played in their time.
        8note 2y ago
        magnus likely has every game morphy ever played, along with all of his contemporaries memorized, along with at every position in each game, what a strong engine would prefer as a move. morphy would probably be an IM by todays standards, without modernizing
- monkey_monkey 2y ago
  Given that he removed himself from the World Chess Championship, the thought that he needs a pretext to pull out of lesser competitions is ludicrous.
  - cjbprime 2y ago
    Given the other ways he's currently in conflict in FIDE, the idea is that he finds being disqualified in this way strategically useful, and a way to garner public sentiment that delegitimizes them.
    - david-gpu 2y ago
      Magnus didn't make FIDE enforce a particularly asinine interpretation of their own rules. If they wanted to, they could have issued a clarification or rectification in the 24 hours after the event, but they haven't. Both parties could have handled this much better.
      - epgui 2y ago
        > "a particularly asinine interpretation of their own rules" It's pretty black and white. 4.10.1.3. No players with t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sneakers, baseball caps or inappropriate dress are allowed in the playing area. Any requests to wear national or traditional dress shall be approved by FIDE Supervisor. Reference: https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_open.pdf https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_...
        david-gpu 2y ago
        Thank you! I stand corrected. I had missed that portion of your quote.
        epgui 2y ago
        I apologize for twisting the knife but-- the proper thing to do would have been to research the rules at the source, not to make up stuff or repeat things from third parties. Wish I had found that section earlier, but I'm less familiar with the chess regulations so it took me a bit to assemble all of the essential parts.
- elif 2y ago
  This is fully unsubstantiated and very unlikely supposition for anyone following the chess scene
elif 2y ago
The rules themselves aren't clear. In fact the rules say that jeans themselves are allowed. The rule is about having frayed worn, or light portions on jeans. Magnus pants were fine. He is absolutely correct that they were singling him out and you can look back to many recent tournaments to see the clear double standard.
- addicted 2y ago
  Honestly, it doesn’t matter whether the rules are clear or not. FIDE isn’t a rule enforcement agency. FIDE is an agency that exists to promote and develop chess. Magnus Carlsen is the biggest draw in the chess world by far. A minor dress code violation should have been dealt with a fine as the rules very much allow for the benefit of the game. Also, I don’t think there’s a single player who would complain about that (well, other than Kramnik, but Kramnik complains that spectators breathe too loud and that’s cheating). And then FIDE should have stepped back and thought about the recent growth in the popularity of chess, since the pandemic and thanks to the work of the likes of Magnus and Gothamchess and should have reconsidered the strict dress code rules in the first place.
- epgui 2y ago
  The rules say no such thing, and seem pretty clear to me. 4.10.1. The dress code is strictly observed for the tournament and all the official events and press conferences. 4.10.1.1. Dress code for men. Shoes: Oxfords, loafers, leather shoes or boots, classic suite shoes. Dark-coloured pants: black, navy, grey, beige, brown, in any case unicoloured. No bright colours. Long-sleeved light-coloured (white, light blue, beige, brown, etc.), blue or black shirt, in any case unicoloured. No bright colours. Dark-coloured jacket, waistcoat or cardigan with buttons: black, navy, grey, beige, brown, in any case unicoloured. No bright colours. Jacket, waistcoat or cardigan may be taken off during play. Tie is not mandatory. [...] 4.10.1.3. No players with t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sneakers, baseball caps or inappropriate dress are allowed in the playing area. Any requests to wear national or traditional dress shall be approved by FIDE Supervisor. [...] 4.10.9. If a player fails to fulfil his/her duties listed in Articles 4.10.1, 4.10.4 – 4.10.8, he/she can be penalised by FIDE Council as follows: 5% of his/her prize money shall be forfeited to the Organiser and a further 5% to FIDE for each breach. In cases of serious misconduct, the player may be disqualified from the event. Reference: https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_open.pdf https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_...
stevage 2y ago
Not true at all. I've seen Hikaru talk about how he doesn't usually read the rules of tournaments and has been surprised by them.
- epgui 2y ago
  I would find that a bit surprising. Do you happen to remember where you heard him say this?
  - michaelt 2y ago
    Sounds plausible enough to me. I don’t read the license agreement of every bit of software or the privacy policy of every website, after all.
    - epgui 2y ago
      I think this is more akin to reading the rules of a formal assembly before participating (eg.: a senate or a formal committee). These guys do chess events for a living. :shrug:
      - pdpi 2y ago
        Exactly. They play chess for a living. You need to care about the bits around the actual chess playing, but regulations for these things are overwhelmingly made of "play nice, be reasonable, don't be a dick" rules. If you try to play by those high-level rules, apologise if you break the nitty gritty of the low-level rules and fix things at the earliest opportunity, it shouldn't be a big issue. Also, things like dress code can easily be a "not an actual rule, just convention" sort of affair.
      - hnlmorg 2y ago
        It’s very common for sports professionals not to have memorised the rules for every aspect of their sport. They’re professionals because they understand the game and are in the top 1% of people who play it. Not because they are the best at memorising rules. The latter group are people Who become umpires/referees instead.
funyun5 2y ago
[dead]

by epgui 2y ago

thelock85 2y ago

Agreed. I’m just thinking about NFL players who have crazy wardrobe leeway in and out of games, but somehow adhere to the minutiae of game time uniform codes. Not because of the insane attention they put into their craft, but because of clear financial or competitive penalties for doing otherwise (that impacts people and time invested in them).

eszed 2y ago
That's because the team's equipment managers lay all of their gear out for them. I doubt any player could confidently answer a minutae-level question about the league's uniform policy.
FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Not totally true. All NFL teams have dress codes. Some of those players with flamboyant outfits actually pay fines every week. They justify the fines as part of the cost of promoting an individual brand over the team brand or image.

wirrbel 2y ago

[flagged]

beepbopboopp 2y ago
How are you going to invent his intentions and then judge him for your inventions? This message board deserves better, the people deserve better.
- epgui 2y ago
  While I don't think it's fair to presume anything about his intentions, it's totally fair to presume he is aware of the rules. He's the world's best chess player of all time, and it's not his first FIDE event.
  - codr7 2y ago
    I think it's totally fair to ask the question, given that he seems to be involved in starting a competing organization.
  - astrange 2y ago
    > He's the world's best chess player of all time This one is hard to tell because not all of them have been alive at the same time. Morphy was really, really good, but in the 1850s. Currently there's Ivanchuk, who is good enough to beat anyone but has no stamina so can't win tournaments reliably enough to be world champion.
    - epgui 2y ago
      There’s no way Morphy at his peak would beat Magnus at his peak (and the same goes for any of the old champions)— The way chess is played today is very different. Morphy would have needed to start from scratch and re-learn the game today from a young age to have any chance… But then he wouldn’t be the same Morphy.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        Or maybe Magnus wouldn't be able to cope with how Morphy plays the game and would lose. Both of them were/are used to how the game was played in their time.
        8note 2y ago
        magnus likely has every game morphy ever played, along with all of his contemporaries memorized, along with at every position in each game, what a strong engine would prefer as a move. morphy would probably be an IM by todays standards, without modernizing
monkey_monkey 2y ago
Given that he removed himself from the World Chess Championship, the thought that he needs a pretext to pull out of lesser competitions is ludicrous.
- cjbprime 2y ago
  Given the other ways he's currently in conflict in FIDE, the idea is that he finds being disqualified in this way strategically useful, and a way to garner public sentiment that delegitimizes them.
  - david-gpu 2y ago
    Magnus didn't make FIDE enforce a particularly asinine interpretation of their own rules. If they wanted to, they could have issued a clarification or rectification in the 24 hours after the event, but they haven't. Both parties could have handled this much better.
    - epgui 2y ago
      > "a particularly asinine interpretation of their own rules" It's pretty black and white. 4.10.1.3. No players with t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sneakers, baseball caps or inappropriate dress are allowed in the playing area. Any requests to wear national or traditional dress shall be approved by FIDE Supervisor. Reference: https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_open.pdf https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_...
      - david-gpu 2y ago
        Thank you! I stand corrected. I had missed that portion of your quote.
        epgui 2y ago
        I apologize for twisting the knife but-- the proper thing to do would have been to research the rules at the source, not to make up stuff or repeat things from third parties. Wish I had found that section earlier, but I'm less familiar with the chess regulations so it took me a bit to assemble all of the essential parts.
elif 2y ago
This is fully unsubstantiated and very unlikely supposition for anyone following the chess scene

elif 2y ago

The rules themselves aren't clear. In fact the rules say that jeans themselves are allowed. The rule is about having frayed worn, or light portions on jeans. Magnus pants were fine. He is absolutely correct that they were singling him out and you can look back to many recent tournaments to see the clear double standard.

addicted 2y ago
Honestly, it doesn’t matter whether the rules are clear or not. FIDE isn’t a rule enforcement agency. FIDE is an agency that exists to promote and develop chess. Magnus Carlsen is the biggest draw in the chess world by far. A minor dress code violation should have been dealt with a fine as the rules very much allow for the benefit of the game. Also, I don’t think there’s a single player who would complain about that (well, other than Kramnik, but Kramnik complains that spectators breathe too loud and that’s cheating). And then FIDE should have stepped back and thought about the recent growth in the popularity of chess, since the pandemic and thanks to the work of the likes of Magnus and Gothamchess and should have reconsidered the strict dress code rules in the first place.
epgui 2y ago
The rules say no such thing, and seem pretty clear to me. 4.10.1. The dress code is strictly observed for the tournament and all the official events and press conferences. 4.10.1.1. Dress code for men. Shoes: Oxfords, loafers, leather shoes or boots, classic suite shoes. Dark-coloured pants: black, navy, grey, beige, brown, in any case unicoloured. No bright colours. Long-sleeved light-coloured (white, light blue, beige, brown, etc.), blue or black shirt, in any case unicoloured. No bright colours. Dark-coloured jacket, waistcoat or cardigan with buttons: black, navy, grey, beige, brown, in any case unicoloured. No bright colours. Jacket, waistcoat or cardigan may be taken off during play. Tie is not mandatory. [...] 4.10.1.3. No players with t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sneakers, baseball caps or inappropriate dress are allowed in the playing area. Any requests to wear national or traditional dress shall be approved by FIDE Supervisor. [...] 4.10.9. If a player fails to fulfil his/her duties listed in Articles 4.10.1, 4.10.4 – 4.10.8, he/she can be penalised by FIDE Council as follows: 5% of his/her prize money shall be forfeited to the Organiser and a further 5% to FIDE for each breach. In cases of serious misconduct, the player may be disqualified from the event. Reference: https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_open.pdf https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_...

stevage 2y ago

Not true at all. I've seen Hikaru talk about how he doesn't usually read the rules of tournaments and has been surprised by them.

epgui 2y ago
I would find that a bit surprising. Do you happen to remember where you heard him say this?
- michaelt 2y ago
  Sounds plausible enough to me. I don’t read the license agreement of every bit of software or the privacy policy of every website, after all.
  - epgui 2y ago
    I think this is more akin to reading the rules of a formal assembly before participating (eg.: a senate or a formal committee). These guys do chess events for a living. :shrug:
    - pdpi 2y ago
      Exactly. They play chess for a living. You need to care about the bits around the actual chess playing, but regulations for these things are overwhelmingly made of "play nice, be reasonable, don't be a dick" rules. If you try to play by those high-level rules, apologise if you break the nitty gritty of the low-level rules and fix things at the earliest opportunity, it shouldn't be a big issue. Also, things like dress code can easily be a "not an actual rule, just convention" sort of affair.
    - hnlmorg 2y ago
      It’s very common for sports professionals not to have memorised the rules for every aspect of their sport. They’re professionals because they understand the game and are in the top 1% of people who play it. Not because they are the best at memorising rules. The latter group are people Who become umpires/referees instead.

funyun5 2y ago

[dead]