4 ms·

The article is useful and the author specifically goes into the case of why drugs are not the reason.

by rcpt 2y ago

Der_Einzige 2y ago
[flagged]
- Avicebron 2y ago
  I'm pretty sure the social safety were gutted when the US slipped right into company profiteering at all costs, busting domestic infrastructure and commerce and leaving people looking around with their hat in their hands wondering why no one can afford anything including houses. It's a capitol/labor split, but I don't love having to use that language.
  - davidw 2y ago
    The housing crisis is a bit more complicated than that particular situation you're describing though. Some very 'progressive' places are full of raging NIMBYism that prevents anything like enough housing from being built.
    - Der_Einzige 2y ago
      The entirety of the state of California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13
      - rcpt 2y ago
        The only thing holding back California from having an economy larger than the rest of the United States combined
    - Avicebron 2y ago
      I agree it's more complicated, but I don't see NIMBYism as inherently 'progressive'/'not-progressive', I don't think it's as simple as "just build more housing, it needs to be something like, build more housing where it makes sense". Like if we turned Mill Valley into Kowloon City tomorrow, sure we would have more "housing", but no one benefits". That's extreme, but I think blaming NIMBYism completely doesn't cover the logical progression.
      - davidw 2y ago
        Lots of people would benefit if they had housing to live in. There's no need for it to be some extreme thing like your example. NIMBYism is to blame for the lack of hundreds of homes here in the small city I live in, in Oregon, since I started tracking these things. It's not the only factor, but things like interest rates are something our city councils and state legislatures can't control. Saying 'yes' to a new apartment building is very much something they can control.
        Avicebron 2y ago
        If saying yes to a new apartment build is all it takes and doing so won't have any negative impacts on the community at all, and there is someone who can guarantee that and ensure that. Then sure, seems odd that a state legislature and city council wouldn't sign off. It seems like maybe the issue is that people are saying "hey, I don't want to live next to or in high density housing, that's not why I live in a small city in Oregon"...well, ask them, hey would you be ok with this being a very tasteful, non-intrusive, home in your neighborhood with a quiet family that fits in well with everyone. They might say yes, which means likely people are not making enough money to live that way, so the real problem is that people don't want to have slums set up in the name of affordable housing.
        davidw 2y ago
        So a big part of the problem is that we feel the need to give people a veto about apartments, but not single detached units. That's a decent portion of our housing crisis right there! "Would we ask any of the same questions of a new single-family house in the same neighborhood?" https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/28/new-apartments-and-the-what-if-game https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/28/new-apartments...
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  As someone who works in EMS in the PNW, while there absolutely are the "fentanyl-addicted zombies", I think a larger part of the drug+homelessness dark combination is our -appalling- state of mental healthcare. I have seen people who have been brought in for mental health issues, actively seeking help, spend -four days- on a temporary gurney in an ER hallway before they are "seen". That is hellacious. Even in an ER room, which is still not calm, you can at least close a door, pull a curtain and turn lights down low. In the hallway, full light, 24/7, all the sensory overload of an overwhelmed ER, nowhere to hide, nowhere to go AND you're in a mental health crisis? People, equipment, chaos going by you every moment of the day and night? I'm perfectly sane (or so I'd like to think), and that would drive me to the brink. So you don't look for help and you're on the street. And the vicious cycle begins. Like you say, we've absolutely destroyed our social safety nets (and that's in the PNW, probably one of the better areas in the country for them, I can't imagine in the deep south). If my life ends up being begging (actual begging), hunting for scraps, using alleys as toilets, I think I'd be using drugs in fairly short order to help numb the pain of that existence.
  - davidw 2y ago
    > If my life ends up being begging (actual begging), hunting for scraps, using alleys as toilets, I think I'd be using drugs in fairly short order to help numb the pain of that existence. A lot of what I've read indicates that the causality runs that way in a lot of cases - people get high to escape the reality of their surroundings. The south has lower rates of homelessness not because people are mentally healthier there, but because housing is cheaper.
    - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
      A lot of drug cases are mistaken for mental illness also, which further bogs down the system since the treatments for each are very different.

The article is useful and the author specifically goes into the case of why drugs are not the reason.

by rcpt 2y ago

The article is useful and the author specifically goes into the case of why drugs are not the reason.

Der_Einzige 2y ago

[flagged]

Avicebron 2y ago
I'm pretty sure the social safety were gutted when the US slipped right into company profiteering at all costs, busting domestic infrastructure and commerce and leaving people looking around with their hat in their hands wondering why no one can afford anything including houses. It's a capitol/labor split, but I don't love having to use that language.
- davidw 2y ago
  The housing crisis is a bit more complicated than that particular situation you're describing though. Some very 'progressive' places are full of raging NIMBYism that prevents anything like enough housing from being built.
  - Der_Einzige 2y ago
    The entirety of the state of California. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_California_Proposition_13
    - rcpt 2y ago
      The only thing holding back California from having an economy larger than the rest of the United States combined
  - Avicebron 2y ago
    I agree it's more complicated, but I don't see NIMBYism as inherently 'progressive'/'not-progressive', I don't think it's as simple as "just build more housing, it needs to be something like, build more housing where it makes sense". Like if we turned Mill Valley into Kowloon City tomorrow, sure we would have more "housing", but no one benefits". That's extreme, but I think blaming NIMBYism completely doesn't cover the logical progression.
    - davidw 2y ago
      Lots of people would benefit if they had housing to live in. There's no need for it to be some extreme thing like your example. NIMBYism is to blame for the lack of hundreds of homes here in the small city I live in, in Oregon, since I started tracking these things. It's not the only factor, but things like interest rates are something our city councils and state legislatures can't control. Saying 'yes' to a new apartment building is very much something they can control.
      - Avicebron 2y ago
        If saying yes to a new apartment build is all it takes and doing so won't have any negative impacts on the community at all, and there is someone who can guarantee that and ensure that. Then sure, seems odd that a state legislature and city council wouldn't sign off. It seems like maybe the issue is that people are saying "hey, I don't want to live next to or in high density housing, that's not why I live in a small city in Oregon"...well, ask them, hey would you be ok with this being a very tasteful, non-intrusive, home in your neighborhood with a quiet family that fits in well with everyone. They might say yes, which means likely people are not making enough money to live that way, so the real problem is that people don't want to have slums set up in the name of affordable housing.
        davidw 2y ago
        So a big part of the problem is that we feel the need to give people a veto about apartments, but not single detached units. That's a decent portion of our housing crisis right there! "Would we ask any of the same questions of a new single-family house in the same neighborhood?" https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/28/new-apartments-and-the-what-if-game https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2024/2/28/new-apartments...
FireBeyond 2y ago
As someone who works in EMS in the PNW, while there absolutely are the "fentanyl-addicted zombies", I think a larger part of the drug+homelessness dark combination is our -appalling- state of mental healthcare. I have seen people who have been brought in for mental health issues, actively seeking help, spend -four days- on a temporary gurney in an ER hallway before they are "seen". That is hellacious. Even in an ER room, which is still not calm, you can at least close a door, pull a curtain and turn lights down low. In the hallway, full light, 24/7, all the sensory overload of an overwhelmed ER, nowhere to hide, nowhere to go AND you're in a mental health crisis? People, equipment, chaos going by you every moment of the day and night? I'm perfectly sane (or so I'd like to think), and that would drive me to the brink. So you don't look for help and you're on the street. And the vicious cycle begins. Like you say, we've absolutely destroyed our social safety nets (and that's in the PNW, probably one of the better areas in the country for them, I can't imagine in the deep south). If my life ends up being begging (actual begging), hunting for scraps, using alleys as toilets, I think I'd be using drugs in fairly short order to help numb the pain of that existence.
- davidw 2y ago
  > If my life ends up being begging (actual begging), hunting for scraps, using alleys as toilets, I think I'd be using drugs in fairly short order to help numb the pain of that existence. A lot of what I've read indicates that the causality runs that way in a lot of cases - people get high to escape the reality of their surroundings. The south has lower rates of homelessness not because people are mentally healthier there, but because housing is cheaper.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    A lot of drug cases are mistaken for mental illness also, which further bogs down the system since the treatments for each are very different.