4 ms·

Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Let competitors wear pajamas- it makes no difference.

CarlitosHighway 2y ago
[flagged]
- unsupp0rted 2y ago
  > When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
m463 2y ago
Sounds a little like academics. Smart people living game of thrones...
booleandilemma 2y ago
It's a game of concentration, and what you wear could affect people's concentration. Better to just stick to a dress code.
- jfengel 2y ago
  Man, it would be weird if they showed up covered in patches like a NASCAR driver or pro poker player. I'm usually not one to stand on formality but that does feel kinda gross.
lm28469 2y ago
[flagged]
menotyou 2y ago
> Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Mostly it's about the sponsors. It's much more difficult to get sponsors for an event if the participants are dressed like they slept in their clothes. That's why organizers try to impose minimal standards on dresscodes. Jeans and sneakers are maybe debatable, but players showed up with cargo pants, shorts or tank tops on other events. In the FIDE regulation for that event jeans were explicitly mentioned as not allowed. FIDE would have made a fool out of themselves when allowing Magnus to wear the jeans.
- 8note 2y ago
  id think the venue more than the sponsors. the media sponsor being the norway public broadcast to specifically put magnus on tv means theyve ticked off at least one sponsor by disqualifying him
- tacone 2y ago
  We'll see how easy it gets to get them when Magnus is playing at some parallel tournament, though. Nakamura, for instance, has already made a point about that.
- pixelatedindex 2y ago
  > Mostly it's about the sponsors. It's much more difficult to get sponsors for an event if the participants are dressed like they slept in their clothes. Would be interesting if they can get mattress companies or apparel companies that have good comfy clothes as sponsors. Why not play chess on a firm mattress?
  - elif 2y ago
    My brother was wearing a formal shirt and suit jacket.
- trollied 2y ago
  Not sure I agree. Chess has moved towards a much younger audience over the last 5 years, and is incredibly popular now. Gets 10s of thousands of viewers on Twitch, for example & there are many players that could be seen as modern day celebrities in their own right. FIDE needs to embrace the younger generation that think the game is cool. Ancient dress codes are a distraction.
aprilthird2021 2y ago
Because smart people realize that all associations and organizations have rules and showing strangers that you follow the rules is an easy way to signal across languages and cultures that you are all there for the same reason
- jfengel 2y ago
  Chess itself is a collection of very arbitrary rules. They happen to be rules that people decided are fun, or interesting, or something. If the dress code isn't fun they should change it. And for that matter... this tournament is a blitz game, itself a change of rules. Perhaps it would be well suited to a change in dress code. Formal clothes for classic chess. Show up in your PJs for a game that takes as long as brushing your teeth.
kybernetyk 2y ago
>Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Rather for people with a really good memory. Which, to me, makes the game extremely boring and bland.
- paulcole 2y ago
  I agree with you in a way. Chess to me is boring because the better player should win/draw unless they blunder. And we (generally) know who the better player is because of ratings. I’ve always much preferred games that in the short run have a luck component that can create massive swings (poker, backgammon, Scrabble) and inequality.
- thatswrong0 2y ago
  It’s funny because that’s partly what this a LOT about. FIDE, the defacto governing body of chess, wants freestyle chess (aka 960 aka Fischer random, which does lot to fix the memory issue you’re talking about) to not be allowed to have a “world championship”. And that attitude led us to these honestly inane events.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Something like that. I was interested in chess until i realized you have to memorize all those openings to play with the 'serious' people. I'd play some Go but I have almost no one to play with casually. And since I play for fun, online isn't so good.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Memorizing openings is a waste of time unless/until you have a shot at good enough to make a living playing chess - about 1000 people and most of them live in poor countries where cost of living means they don't need to earn much to live. learn your tactics and end games instead.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      learning end games isn't also memorization?
PUSH_AX 2y ago
> Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Chess is for everyone, my 5 year old plays chess. Being world class is another thing.
- ilbeeper 2y ago
  Basketball is a game for tall people. Lifting is a sport for strong people. Chess is a game for smart people. Is that controversial or incompatible with 5 year old kids playing chess?
  - PUSH_AX 2y ago
    It’s false is what it is.
    - ilbeeper 2y ago
      All three sentences or only the one about chess?
  - bluGill 2y ago
    short people enjoy playing basketball. They will never go pro but they don't care.
ttyprintk 2y ago
On the womens’ side, the biggest FIDE sponsor is breast enhancement surgery. That makes women’s choice of shirts important for the sponsor’s marketing. Maybe these rules are trying to signal that the attention is spread across men as well.
gradus_ad 2y ago
Why wouldn't smart people care about appearances? If the organization and participants desire to present themselves as dignified and worthy of respect, a certain standard of dress is appropriate. More generally, appearances are important because they are clear signs of attention and care. Something worth our respect is worth dressing up for, and a collective dressing up reinforces the importance and elevation of a given event or moment over other events or moments of lesser import.
- 8note 2y ago
  i dont think people who wear jeans should be considered as undignified or unworthy of respect. its kinda cruel that you think homeless people who have maybe less than jeans should be given no respect, because they dont have a suit
- trollied 2y ago
  Times have changed. Offices used to be full of people in full suits, with trousers. Now it is common for CEOs to wear jeans, and offices are much more tailored to working comfortably, rather than having a "posh" facade.
- notfed 2y ago
  Are jeans undignified or disrespectful?
  - epgui 2y ago
    It doesn't really matter, regardless of whether or not we agree with the rules, jeans are clearly prohibited in the tournament: 4.10.1.3. No players with t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sneakers, baseball caps or inappropriate dress are allowed in the playing area. Any requests to wear national or traditional dress shall be approved by FIDE Supervisor. Reference: https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_open.pdf https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_...
    - saghm 2y ago
      Having bad rules written down doesn't make them immune to criticism. It's a silly unnecessary rule that shouldn't exist, and while Carlsen doesn't deserve any special treatment, being consistent in enforcing a bad rule isn't better than not having the rule in the first place.
frou_dh 2y ago
> Let competitors wear pajamas- it makes no difference. Ah yes the wonderful "everything is equally valid" postmodernism. Why don't the organisers subscribe to that? They must be dumb-dumbs.
mrweasel 2y ago
Most sports have dress codes. Some for obvious reasons, such as team sports where the players need to be able to identify each other, but others because they want things to look professional and more organised. Take a sport like rowing. Technically there's no reason why all the rowers in a boat needs to be dressed identically, but it looks more professional.
DrewADesign 2y ago
> Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Prescriptive contest rules suck, but I don’t like the attitude endemic to nerds that truly smart people don’t care about personal aesthetic. There’s no more honor in not caring how you look than there is in not caring about food or fine art. I have friends that are smart, capable professionals that look like they only get new clothes when their mom notices their shirts exceed the totinos pizza roll stain threshold and drags them to Bob’s— whether it’s at home, work, wedding, date night, court, the gym, the club, a con, etc. You’d expect them to reject people’s tendency to judge people on their looks, but ironically, they deem anyone that puts any effort into their appearance (a.k.a. doesn’t solely dress for comfort) shallow, unintelligent, and boring. Predictably, gender expectations play a huge part.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/ws/800/cpsprodpb/db4b/live/61d6f240-c510-11ef-a5ad-df765a11509a.png.webp https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/ws/800/cpsprodpb/db4b/live/61d6... His outfit is sharp as hell Fwiw
- Invictus0 2y ago
  It's a shibboleth for ugly people; since they can't "win" on their looks, they opt not to play that game at all and need to loudly brag about their superiority over the vapid "fashion police".
  - anonzzzies 2y ago
    It's a shibboleth for poor and dumb people; they don't have anything going for them (maybe they are not ugly but that doesn't help anymore after a certain age), so they need to play dress up to appear more than they are (and ever will be) and act like it too. Always funny to see.
- emptybits 2y ago
  > I don’t like the attitude endemic to nerds that truly smart people don’t care about personal aesthetic. Then IMO you should be on Magnus' side here. He is a truly smart person and IMO he looked clean, groomed, and ready for business in those jeans. He wears a mindfully put together outfit of good quality. This is good character, is it not?

CarlitosHighway 2y ago

[flagged]

unsupp0rted 2y ago
> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

m463 2y ago

Sounds a little like academics. Smart people living game of thrones...

booleandilemma 2y ago

It's a game of concentration, and what you wear could affect people's concentration. Better to just stick to a dress code.

jfengel 2y ago
Man, it would be weird if they showed up covered in patches like a NASCAR driver or pro poker player. I'm usually not one to stand on formality but that does feel kinda gross.

lm28469 2y ago

[flagged]

menotyou 2y ago

> Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Mostly it's about the sponsors. It's much more difficult to get sponsors for an event if the participants are dressed like they slept in their clothes. That's why organizers try to impose minimal standards on dresscodes. Jeans and sneakers are maybe debatable, but players showed up with cargo pants, shorts or tank tops on other events. In the FIDE regulation for that event jeans were explicitly mentioned as not allowed. FIDE would have made a fool out of themselves when allowing Magnus to wear the jeans.

8note 2y ago
id think the venue more than the sponsors. the media sponsor being the norway public broadcast to specifically put magnus on tv means theyve ticked off at least one sponsor by disqualifying him
tacone 2y ago
We'll see how easy it gets to get them when Magnus is playing at some parallel tournament, though. Nakamura, for instance, has already made a point about that.
pixelatedindex 2y ago
> Mostly it's about the sponsors. It's much more difficult to get sponsors for an event if the participants are dressed like they slept in their clothes. Would be interesting if they can get mattress companies or apparel companies that have good comfy clothes as sponsors. Why not play chess on a firm mattress?
- elif 2y ago
  My brother was wearing a formal shirt and suit jacket.
trollied 2y ago
Not sure I agree. Chess has moved towards a much younger audience over the last 5 years, and is incredibly popular now. Gets 10s of thousands of viewers on Twitch, for example & there are many players that could be seen as modern day celebrities in their own right. FIDE needs to embrace the younger generation that think the game is cool. Ancient dress codes are a distraction.

aprilthird2021 2y ago

Because smart people realize that all associations and organizations have rules and showing strangers that you follow the rules is an easy way to signal across languages and cultures that you are all there for the same reason

jfengel 2y ago
Chess itself is a collection of very arbitrary rules. They happen to be rules that people decided are fun, or interesting, or something. If the dress code isn't fun they should change it. And for that matter... this tournament is a blitz game, itself a change of rules. Perhaps it would be well suited to a change in dress code. Formal clothes for classic chess. Show up in your PJs for a game that takes as long as brushing your teeth.

kybernetyk 2y ago

>Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Rather for people with a really good memory. Which, to me, makes the game extremely boring and bland.

paulcole 2y ago
I agree with you in a way. Chess to me is boring because the better player should win/draw unless they blunder. And we (generally) know who the better player is because of ratings. I’ve always much preferred games that in the short run have a luck component that can create massive swings (poker, backgammon, Scrabble) and inequality.
thatswrong0 2y ago
It’s funny because that’s partly what this a LOT about. FIDE, the defacto governing body of chess, wants freestyle chess (aka 960 aka Fischer random, which does lot to fix the memory issue you’re talking about) to not be allowed to have a “world championship”. And that attitude led us to these honestly inane events.
nottorp 2y ago
Something like that. I was interested in chess until i realized you have to memorize all those openings to play with the 'serious' people. I'd play some Go but I have almost no one to play with casually. And since I play for fun, online isn't so good.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Memorizing openings is a waste of time unless/until you have a shot at good enough to make a living playing chess - about 1000 people and most of them live in poor countries where cost of living means they don't need to earn much to live. learn your tactics and end games instead.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    learning end games isn't also memorization?

PUSH_AX 2y ago

> Chess is supposed to be a game for smart people. Chess is for everyone, my 5 year old plays chess. Being world class is another thing.

ilbeeper 2y ago
Basketball is a game for tall people. Lifting is a sport for strong people. Chess is a game for smart people. Is that controversial or incompatible with 5 year old kids playing chess?
- PUSH_AX 2y ago
  It’s false is what it is.
  - ilbeeper 2y ago
    All three sentences or only the one about chess?
- bluGill 2y ago
  short people enjoy playing basketball. They will never go pro but they don't care.

ttyprintk 2y ago

On the womens’ side, the biggest FIDE sponsor is breast enhancement surgery. That makes women’s choice of shirts important for the sponsor’s marketing. Maybe these rules are trying to signal that the attention is spread across men as well.

gradus_ad 2y ago

Why wouldn't smart people care about appearances? If the organization and participants desire to present themselves as dignified and worthy of respect, a certain standard of dress is appropriate. More generally, appearances are important because they are clear signs of attention and care. Something worth our respect is worth dressing up for, and a collective dressing up reinforces the importance and elevation of a given event or moment over other events or moments of lesser import.

8note 2y ago
i dont think people who wear jeans should be considered as undignified or unworthy of respect. its kinda cruel that you think homeless people who have maybe less than jeans should be given no respect, because they dont have a suit
trollied 2y ago
Times have changed. Offices used to be full of people in full suits, with trousers. Now it is common for CEOs to wear jeans, and offices are much more tailored to working comfortably, rather than having a "posh" facade.
notfed 2y ago
Are jeans undignified or disrespectful?
- epgui 2y ago
  It doesn't really matter, regardless of whether or not we agree with the rules, jeans are clearly prohibited in the tournament: 4.10.1.3. No players with t-shirts, jeans, shorts, sneakers, baseball caps or inappropriate dress are allowed in the playing area. Any requests to wear national or traditional dress shall be approved by FIDE Supervisor. Reference: https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_open.pdf https://www.fide.com/docs/regulations/wrbc_regulations_2024_...
  - saghm 2y ago
    Having bad rules written down doesn't make them immune to criticism. It's a silly unnecessary rule that shouldn't exist, and while Carlsen doesn't deserve any special treatment, being consistent in enforcing a bad rule isn't better than not having the rule in the first place.

frou_dh 2y ago

> Let competitors wear pajamas- it makes no difference. Ah yes the wonderful "everything is equally valid" postmodernism. Why don't the organisers subscribe to that? They must be dumb-dumbs.

mrweasel 2y ago

Most sports have dress codes. Some for obvious reasons, such as team sports where the players need to be able to identify each other, but others because they want things to look professional and more organised. Take a sport like rowing. Technically there's no reason why all the rowers in a boat needs to be dressed identically, but it looks more professional.

DrewADesign 2y ago

> Why would smart people care about denim vs. trousers? Prescriptive contest rules suck, but I don’t like the attitude endemic to nerds that truly smart people don’t care about personal aesthetic. There’s no more honor in not caring how you look than there is in not caring about food or fine art. I have friends that are smart, capable professionals that look like they only get new clothes when their mom notices their shirts exceed the totinos pizza roll stain threshold and drags them to Bob’s— whether it’s at home, work, wedding, date night, court, the gym, the club, a con, etc. You’d expect them to reject people’s tendency to judge people on their looks, but ironically, they deem anyone that puts any effort into their appearance (a.k.a. doesn’t solely dress for comfort) shallow, unintelligent, and boring. Predictably, gender expectations play a huge part.

jncfhnb 2y ago
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/ws/800/cpsprodpb/db4b/live/61d6f240-c510-11ef-a5ad-df765a11509a.png.webp https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/ace/ws/800/cpsprodpb/db4b/live/61d6... His outfit is sharp as hell Fwiw
Invictus0 2y ago
It's a shibboleth for ugly people; since they can't "win" on their looks, they opt not to play that game at all and need to loudly brag about their superiority over the vapid "fashion police".
- anonzzzies 2y ago
  It's a shibboleth for poor and dumb people; they don't have anything going for them (maybe they are not ugly but that doesn't help anymore after a certain age), so they need to play dress up to appear more than they are (and ever will be) and act like it too. Always funny to see.
emptybits 2y ago
> I don’t like the attitude endemic to nerds that truly smart people don’t care about personal aesthetic. Then IMO you should be on Magnus' side here. He is a truly smart person and IMO he looked clean, groomed, and ready for business in those jeans. He wears a mindfully put together outfit of good quality. This is good character, is it not?