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> routinely kills people Kind of agree with everything else, but I'm not sure what the purpose of this straight-up lie[1] is. I don't even like Musk, nor do I

• sroussey 2y ago
  That is hardly an exhaustive list.
• leptons 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_Autopilot_crashe... >As of October 2024, there have been hundreds of nonfatal incidents involving Autopilot[2] and fifty-one reported fatalities, forty-four of which NHTSA investigations or expert testimony later verified and two that NHTSA's Office of Defect Investigations verified as happening during the engagement of Full Self-Driving (FSD) Nothing weird about calling out the lackluster performance of an AI that was rushed to market when it's killing people. >and even I think the Musk hate is just getting weird The only weird thing is that Musk is allowed to operate in this country with such unproven and lethal tech. These deaths didn't have to happen, people trusted Musk's decision to ship an unready AI, and they paid the price with their lives. I avoid driving near Teslas, I don't need Musk's greed risking my life too. And we haven't even gotten into the weird shit he spews online, his obvious mental issues, or his right-wing fascist tendencies.
  • seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    You would think that Tesla’s full self driving feature would be more relevant than autopilot here, since the latter is just a smarter cruise control that doesn’t use much AI at all, and the former is full AI that doesn’t live up to expectations.
  • dvt 2y ago
    Dude come on, saying FSD "routinely" kills people is just delusional (and provably wrong). No idea why Musk just lives rent-free in folks' heads like this. He's just a random douchebag billionaire, there's scores of 'em.
    • kube-system 2y ago
      Would it be wrong to say that people routinely die in car accidents in general? Not really, it's quite a common cause of death. And Tesla's systems have statistically similar death rates. They're reasonably safe when compared to people. But honestly, for a computer that never gets tired or distracted, that's pretty shit performance.
      • asdff 2y ago
        Just like how computerized airplanes don’t crash or computerized boats don’t sink, huh.
        • kube-system 2y ago
          I don't know much about boats, but automated flight controls absolutely do have statistically relevant lower rates of death, by far.
          • asdff 2y ago
            I was just pushing against the sentiment that because something is computerized it works perfectly every time. Which for anyone who has exited their home and looked at this world, would also conclude is a false sentiment.
            • kube-system 2y ago
              I don’t think anyone was suggesting otherwise.
      • michaelmrose 2y ago
  • MPSimmons 2y ago
    I dislike Elon as much (or maybe more) than the majority of this site, but I am actually not able to adequately express how small a percentage of total highway deaths 51 people is. But let me try. Over 40,000 people die in US road deaths EVERY YEAR. I was using full self driving in 2018 on a Model 3. So between then and October 2024, there were something like 250,000 people who died on the highway, and something like 249,949 were not using full self driving. Every single one of those people were tragedies, no doubt about it. And there will always be fatalities while people use FSD. You cannot prevent it, because the world is big and full of unforeseen situations and no software will be able to deal with them all. I am convinced, though, that using FSD judiciously will save far more lives than removing it will. The most damning thing that can be said about full self driving is that it requires good judgement from the general population, and that's asking a lot. But on the whole, I still feel it's a good trade.
    • pms 2y ago
      You're expressing your opinions in this context, because Tesla didn't reveal the data that would let us tell whether its FSD system is objectively safer than an average human driver in the same driving conditions. You're leading a discussion that distracts from the core issue that Tesla is unwilling to release data that would enable independent researchers evaluate its FSD systems. In other words, you're doing marketing for Tesla for free.
    • int0x29 2y ago
      The problem is it's called "full self driving" and it runs red lights.
      • asdff 2y ago
        Just like the rest of the drivers out there you mean. Just think logically for a second. If they ran red lights all the time there would be nonstop press about just that and people returning the cars. Theres not though, which is enough evidence for you to conclude these are edge cases. Plenty of drivers are drunk and or high too, maybe autopilot prevents those drivers from killing others