4 ms·

New technology in the airport is incredibly scary. I recently flew between the United States and Canada and it is mind boggling how trivial passports are alread

New technology in the airport is incredibly scary. I recently flew between the United States and Canada and it is mind boggling how trivial passports are already becoming. I began by looking into a camera on a kiosk, where as soon as my face was recognized, I walked up to the CBP officer and he verified my identify with a quick look at my passport and ticket. I don't see the passport lasting much longer, at last in the US, Canada, and Europe.

eszed 2y ago
Singapore is even further ahead, with no human in the (regular) loop at all. I walked up to the first barrier, it scanned my face and opened. My name appeared on the screen inside, before I inserted my passport. Then the system "thought" about it for a few seconds, and then the second barrier opened. I appreciated the complete lack of a passport line (going and coming), but got squicked out about the heuristics the system (might) run through before it let me through. That's where all of this is headed, though.
- gruez 2y ago
  >but got squicked out about the heuristics the system (might) run through before it let me through. I think you're overestimating how sophisticated the system is. Most online check-in processes require you to input your passport details. In-person check-in probably results in the gate agent doing something similar. If the arrival airport has this information, it's pretty easy to look up the corresponding face on file (that you provided when you applied for a passport), and use that to generate a list of faces you need to match against. From there, it's only a matter of matching a given face to a face in that set. Moreover, given that arrivals are staggered, that set is going to be relatively small. A wide-body aircraft holds around 300 passengers. If 3 of them arrive at the same time, to the same passport control point, that's only around 1000 faces to match against. That's far easier to do than trying to match against all faces in the entire country, for instance.
  - eszed 2y ago
    Sure, the recognition step is fairly simplistic. It's not inconceivable, however, that the system connects to whatever other dossier(s) have been built against my identity. Even before we consider ML facial recognition by public cameras (probably not yet possible at scale?), the Singaporean SIM card I bought was connected to my passport, which gives them my location: both absolute and relative to anyone I might have spent time around. I mean, I was a normal tourist, and not doing anything shady whilst I was there, but... False positives exist, and I wouldn't have wanted to have been pulled out of the queue for questioning about something I couldn't possibly have explained. Singaporeans seem to have a different point of view about surveillance, however. Even the (fairly low-key) human rights activist I chatted with thought it was all great, and said something along the lines of "the cameras keep us safe". "Privacy" as we tend to think about it on this board may be a mainly Anglo-Saxon concern, for what that's worth.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >It's not inconceivable, however, that the system connects to whatever other dossier(s) have been built against my identity. Even before we consider ML facial recognition by public cameras (probably not yet possible at scale?), the Singaporean SIM card I bought was connected to my passport, which gives them my location: both absolute and relative to anyone I might have spent time around. Why do they need a dossier on you when the passenger manifest has your exact identity? Or are you talking about them tracking you in the country after you left customs? Given that passport control is already plastered with cameras, and you need to present an identity document containing your face to enter the country, I'm not sure why people feel extra creeped out by an automated passport control gate. If they wanted to track you they already have all they need.
      - eszed 2y ago
        I'm talking about them tracking me in the country after I left customs.
- matwood 2y ago
  ATL has this in parts for domestic flights if you're eligible for 'Digital ID'. Passport control in the US is still for the most part way behind other countries.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    Why is there an identity check for a domestic flight anyway?
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  Most of the EU is no human in the loop as well if you are a Schengen-area citizen
- refurb 2y ago
  Singapore has moved to no passport entry for many countries. As in you don't need to show your passport at all. https://www.ica.gov.sg/news-and-publications/newsroom/media-release/passport-less-immigration-clearance-to-be-rolled-out-progressively-at-changi-airport-from-august-2024 https://www.ica.gov.sg/news-and-publications/newsroom/media-...
macleginn 2y ago
When flying into Toronto last year, I filled in my rudimentary customs declaration on the machine and then was waved through right out. Not only did I not interact with a border officer, I did not pass any kind of e-gate either.
Klonoar 2y ago
You can opt out of the facial recognition in many cases. I do.

eszed 2y ago

Singapore is even further ahead, with no human in the (regular) loop at all. I walked up to the first barrier, it scanned my face and opened. My name appeared on the screen inside, before I inserted my passport. Then the system "thought" about it for a few seconds, and then the second barrier opened. I appreciated the complete lack of a passport line (going and coming), but got squicked out about the heuristics the system (might) run through before it let me through. That's where all of this is headed, though.

gruez 2y ago
>but got squicked out about the heuristics the system (might) run through before it let me through. I think you're overestimating how sophisticated the system is. Most online check-in processes require you to input your passport details. In-person check-in probably results in the gate agent doing something similar. If the arrival airport has this information, it's pretty easy to look up the corresponding face on file (that you provided when you applied for a passport), and use that to generate a list of faces you need to match against. From there, it's only a matter of matching a given face to a face in that set. Moreover, given that arrivals are staggered, that set is going to be relatively small. A wide-body aircraft holds around 300 passengers. If 3 of them arrive at the same time, to the same passport control point, that's only around 1000 faces to match against. That's far easier to do than trying to match against all faces in the entire country, for instance.
- eszed 2y ago
  Sure, the recognition step is fairly simplistic. It's not inconceivable, however, that the system connects to whatever other dossier(s) have been built against my identity. Even before we consider ML facial recognition by public cameras (probably not yet possible at scale?), the Singaporean SIM card I bought was connected to my passport, which gives them my location: both absolute and relative to anyone I might have spent time around. I mean, I was a normal tourist, and not doing anything shady whilst I was there, but... False positives exist, and I wouldn't have wanted to have been pulled out of the queue for questioning about something I couldn't possibly have explained. Singaporeans seem to have a different point of view about surveillance, however. Even the (fairly low-key) human rights activist I chatted with thought it was all great, and said something along the lines of "the cameras keep us safe". "Privacy" as we tend to think about it on this board may be a mainly Anglo-Saxon concern, for what that's worth.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >It's not inconceivable, however, that the system connects to whatever other dossier(s) have been built against my identity. Even before we consider ML facial recognition by public cameras (probably not yet possible at scale?), the Singaporean SIM card I bought was connected to my passport, which gives them my location: both absolute and relative to anyone I might have spent time around. Why do they need a dossier on you when the passenger manifest has your exact identity? Or are you talking about them tracking you in the country after you left customs? Given that passport control is already plastered with cameras, and you need to present an identity document containing your face to enter the country, I'm not sure why people feel extra creeped out by an automated passport control gate. If they wanted to track you they already have all they need.
    - eszed 2y ago
      I'm talking about them tracking me in the country after I left customs.
matwood 2y ago
ATL has this in parts for domestic flights if you're eligible for 'Digital ID'. Passport control in the US is still for the most part way behind other countries.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  Why is there an identity check for a domestic flight anyway?
whimsicalism 2y ago
Most of the EU is no human in the loop as well if you are a Schengen-area citizen
refurb 2y ago
Singapore has moved to no passport entry for many countries. As in you don't need to show your passport at all. https://www.ica.gov.sg/news-and-publications/newsroom/media-release/passport-less-immigration-clearance-to-be-rolled-out-progressively-at-changi-airport-from-august-2024 https://www.ica.gov.sg/news-and-publications/newsroom/media-...

macleginn 2y ago

When flying into Toronto last year, I filled in my rudimentary customs declaration on the machine and then was waved through right out. Not only did I not interact with a border officer, I did not pass any kind of e-gate either.

Klonoar 2y ago

You can opt out of the facial recognition in many cases. I do.