5 ms·

OK... I am generally not the person to come to Apple's defense but I don't think everyone should jumping to these conclusion. That Barbara Kyle lady from the El

OK... I am generally not the person to come to Apple's defense but I don't think everyone should jumping to these conclusion. That Barbara Kyle lady from the Electronics Take Back Coalition says "We seriously doubt that these MacBooks should qualify for EPEAT at any level because we think they flunk two required criteria in the 'Design for End of Life' section of the standard." They think it flunks. Has that been shown? The article goes on to say Those criteria are "4.3.1.3 Easy disassembly of external enclosure," and "4.3.1.5 Identification and removal of components containing hazardous materials." Kyle noted that the glue makes the battery difficult to remove "safely," which is "exactly the kind of design that this standard seeks to discourage." So, has it yet been shown that Kyle is right about the glue? Maybe the glue is easier to get off than she thinks? Maybe Apple truly does believe their glue allows for "easy disassembly".

ajross 14y ago
This is journalism, though, not science. The point isn't to answer the question, just to document the controversy. Apple says one thing. Another party with relevant qualifications says that they are wrong. And the subject has previously been covered in the media, so it's newsworthy. They even contacted Apple for a response. I don't see anything weird here at all. I will say, though, that if Apple truly felt their glue allows for easy disassembly, they probably wouldn't have withdrawn from EPEAT in the first place.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  > This is journalism, though, not science. The point isn't to answer the question, just to document the controversy. Or in many cases, create the controversy. Edit: But anyway, the article does fine with the journalism part. I was just thinking that people should probably wait to see if the rating really is ridiculous or not. I've certainly never taken a MBP apart. So I have no idea if it is easy or not. Either way, I have no more reason to trust one over the other.
  - Dylan16807 14y ago
    Apple's the one that originally didn't want to certify, so I don't think you can say the news organizations are creating anything here.
- idspispopd 14y ago
  I think rather it's much more straight forward, Apple's mobile devices make up the bulk of their income, it's where they're pointing their business as a whole now. A growing segment of their mobile device sales aren't covered by any EPEAT certification at all (iPhone/iPad). Future Apple devices are going to be increasingly complex to disassemble, and this is seen as a competitive issue too, in the pursuit of thinner, stronger and more attractive enclosures. I think they were just getting out of EPEAT before EPEAT caught up to mobile devices, a quiet exit (or so they hoped.)
neild 14y ago
Given that any Apple store can replace the battery while you wait, it obviously can't be that hard to do.
- joekrill 14y ago
  Is this true even of the new Retina MacBook Pros?
  - neild 14y ago
    Yes. It costs a bit more than other models ($200), but they also have a larger battery.
eridius 14y ago
In one of the numerous HN stories about this thing someone pointed out (and I wish I had a link to this) that if iFixit can easily disassemble the machine (and they can) then there obviously isn't a problem here. No, end users aren't supposed to be taking it apart, but the complaints about the glue have to do with the potential for impacting recyclability, which is a whole different ballgame. If iFixit can remove the battery, so can recyclers.
- Dylan16807 14y ago
  Can they? The best I've seen was an image of one battery cell pried half off next to a comment saying they gave up trying to get the battery out safely.
  - riffraff 14y ago
    safely is the core thing I believe, in recycler context you would not care about not breaking things.
    - nemetroid 14y ago
      Safely refers to the well-being of the person rather than the battery. Puncturing lithium-polymer batteries can be dangerous.
- ars 14y ago
  > so can recyclers Recyclers have to work fast - otherwise it's not worth it to them, and they'll just toss it. So just because it's possible to remove the battery doesn't mean it's practical.
nirvana 14y ago
Apple tends to replace these things in 30 minutes. Maybe - and by definition this is speculation on all sides- the new machine's battery can't be replaced according to Apple's historical standards. But it seems highly unlikely. On the other hand, it is very common for nonsensical and simply false information to be spread about Apple, constantly, to try and bash the company, because this kind of fake scandal is great for page views. Apple was the first company to design computers for easy disassembly and repair, and their current generation of MBPs is certainly easy to disassemble. I know this because I've done it. The idea that glue makes it impossible to recycle is kinda silly on the face of it. In fact, since lithium batteries come in tough-plastic containers, making the glue too strong would cause risk of rupture, and that would create potential liability. Which means that this accusation is akin to saying "apple doesn't care about the liability they might incur from injuries or explosions due to damage trying to recycle their batteries.... even in their own stores!" I don't find this credulous.

ajross 14y ago

This is journalism, though, not science. The point isn't to answer the question, just to document the controversy. Apple says one thing. Another party with relevant qualifications says that they are wrong. And the subject has previously been covered in the media, so it's newsworthy. They even contacted Apple for a response. I don't see anything weird here at all. I will say, though, that if Apple truly felt their glue allows for easy disassembly, they probably wouldn't have withdrawn from EPEAT in the first place.

jack-r-abbit 14y ago
> This is journalism, though, not science. The point isn't to answer the question, just to document the controversy. Or in many cases, create the controversy. Edit: But anyway, the article does fine with the journalism part. I was just thinking that people should probably wait to see if the rating really is ridiculous or not. I've certainly never taken a MBP apart. So I have no idea if it is easy or not. Either way, I have no more reason to trust one over the other.
- Dylan16807 14y ago
  Apple's the one that originally didn't want to certify, so I don't think you can say the news organizations are creating anything here.
idspispopd 14y ago
I think rather it's much more straight forward, Apple's mobile devices make up the bulk of their income, it's where they're pointing their business as a whole now. A growing segment of their mobile device sales aren't covered by any EPEAT certification at all (iPhone/iPad). Future Apple devices are going to be increasingly complex to disassemble, and this is seen as a competitive issue too, in the pursuit of thinner, stronger and more attractive enclosures. I think they were just getting out of EPEAT before EPEAT caught up to mobile devices, a quiet exit (or so they hoped.)

neild 14y ago

Given that any Apple store can replace the battery while you wait, it obviously can't be that hard to do.

joekrill 14y ago
Is this true even of the new Retina MacBook Pros?
- neild 14y ago
  Yes. It costs a bit more than other models ($200), but they also have a larger battery.

eridius 14y ago

In one of the numerous HN stories about this thing someone pointed out (and I wish I had a link to this) that if iFixit can easily disassemble the machine (and they can) then there obviously isn't a problem here. No, end users aren't supposed to be taking it apart, but the complaints about the glue have to do with the potential for impacting recyclability, which is a whole different ballgame. If iFixit can remove the battery, so can recyclers.

Dylan16807 14y ago
Can they? The best I've seen was an image of one battery cell pried half off next to a comment saying they gave up trying to get the battery out safely.
- riffraff 14y ago
  safely is the core thing I believe, in recycler context you would not care about not breaking things.
  - nemetroid 14y ago
    Safely refers to the well-being of the person rather than the battery. Puncturing lithium-polymer batteries can be dangerous.
ars 14y ago
> so can recyclers Recyclers have to work fast - otherwise it's not worth it to them, and they'll just toss it. So just because it's possible to remove the battery doesn't mean it's practical.

nirvana 14y ago

Apple tends to replace these things in 30 minutes. Maybe - and by definition this is speculation on all sides- the new machine's battery can't be replaced according to Apple's historical standards. But it seems highly unlikely. On the other hand, it is very common for nonsensical and simply false information to be spread about Apple, constantly, to try and bash the company, because this kind of fake scandal is great for page views. Apple was the first company to design computers for easy disassembly and repair, and their current generation of MBPs is certainly easy to disassemble. I know this because I've done it. The idea that glue makes it impossible to recycle is kinda silly on the face of it. In fact, since lithium batteries come in tough-plastic containers, making the glue too strong would cause risk of rupture, and that would create potential liability. Which means that this accusation is akin to saying "apple doesn't care about the liability they might incur from injuries or explosions due to damage trying to recycle their batteries.... even in their own stores!" I don't find this credulous.