4 ms·

The SN850x isn't a "gaming part", it's a top-of-the-line consumer SSD that uses the exact same type of NAND chips (3D TLC) that Apple uses in its products.

LukeShu 2y ago
Western Digital themselves are literally calling the WD_BLACK line their gaming line[1], and their page for the SN850X in particular is dripping with "gaming"[2]. Maybe that doesn't make it a bad comparison, but the SN850X is def intended to be a gaming part. [1]: https://www.westerndigital.com/brand/wd-black https://www.westerndigital.com/brand/wd-black [2]: https://www.westerndigital.com/en-in/products/internal-drives/wd-black-sn850x-nvme-ssd https://www.westerndigital.com/en-in/products/internal-drive...
- vlovich123 2y ago
  What is a competing part that you think would be more comparable? Gamers are the ones buying expensive parts so it makes sense to market to that. The next tier after this is basically server-class 10-20k machines which Apple is definitely not competing with (and SSDs are not really that much better in that class anyway). Dismissing SSDs as “gaming” parts as if it’s diminishing the quality misunderstands what’s happening here. It would be one thing if WD was ignoring fsyncs to achieve this performance but gamers don’t care about writes so much anyway and there’s no indication WD did that. Source: I have the WD and Samsung parts as well as cheapo random SSDs.
  - twoparachute45 2y ago
    The other product lines would be WD Blues (marketed at "creative professionals working with large files") and WD Reds (marketed specifically for use in NAS's), but neither of these really support the argument that the SN850x isn't a good comparison, because both the Blue and Red lines are cheaper and less performant (and the Blues are even rated for less longevity), and just make it seem like Apple is price gouging even more. The point I was trying to make by pointing out that the SN850x isn't a "gaming part" is that the SN850x is literally the top-of-the-line, most expensive consumer SSD sold by WD, and has practically the same specs as other top-of-the-line, most expensive competing parts like the Samsung 990 Pro. Being one of the most expensive SSDs on the market means that saying that the SN850x is a bad comparison because it's supposedly "lower price" is just false on its face.
    - Retric 2y ago
      Ahh you misunderstood what the lower prices is in reference to. Gaming parts often have a real premium, it’s specifically the price at a specific performance level where they preform well. To be more clear, getting equal performance without sacrificing anything would raise costs even further.
  - Retric 2y ago
    I personally don’t think anything is a great comparison. It’s easy to say moderate premium over normal business grade SSD’s but that doesn’t mean any specific number is correct. I’d say the equivalent to a 130$ to 220$ SSD assuming a stand alone equivalent exited, but the actual number depending on info Apple isn’t sharing. And yes the range is both above and below the specific part suggested.
Retric 2y ago
There’s a lot of diversity under that “3D TLC” umbrella. But anyway, in what world isn’t this a gaming product: https://shop.sandisk.com/products/ssd/internal-ssd/wd-black-sn850x-nvme-ssd?sku=WDS200T2X0E-00BCA0 https://shop.sandisk.com/products/ssd/internal-ssd/wd-black-... “Built for elite gaming. Crush load times and slash throttling, lagging, and texture pop-ins with the WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe™ SSD. … Do more with WD_BLACK Dashboard The downloadable WD_BLACK Dashboard (Windows® only) monitors your drive’s health, lets you customize your RGB lighting, and, exclusively on the SN850X SSD, enables Game Mode 2.0 to transform your gaming experience.”
- twoparachute45 2y ago
  > There’s a lot of diversity under that “3D TLC” umbrella. There really isn't. Apple is reported to use SanDisk 3D TLC NAND chips. SanDisk is owned by Western Digital, and the WD SSDs use SanDisk chips. They're literally the same chips.
  - Retric 2y ago
    They could in theory come off the same assembly line, that doesn’t mean the everything is identical. Hell WD chips could be of higher quality as I am not suggesting I know their internal processes. I am saying things are optimized differently.
    - pdpi 2y ago
      > They could in theory come off the same assembly line, that doesn’t mean the everything is identical. It could just come down to different binning of the same part, and it would still make a difference.
    - izacus 2y ago
      At this point of the conversation, you seem to be really grasping for theoretical stuff to defent Apple's margins with very little proof. Why?
      - 2y ago

LukeShu 2y ago

Western Digital themselves are literally calling the WD_BLACK line their gaming line[1], and their page for the SN850X in particular is dripping with "gaming"[2]. Maybe that doesn't make it a bad comparison, but the SN850X is def intended to be a gaming part. [1]: https://www.westerndigital.com/brand/wd-black https://www.westerndigital.com/brand/wd-black [2]: https://www.westerndigital.com/en-in/products/internal-drives/wd-black-sn850x-nvme-ssd https://www.westerndigital.com/en-in/products/internal-drive...

vlovich123 2y ago
What is a competing part that you think would be more comparable? Gamers are the ones buying expensive parts so it makes sense to market to that. The next tier after this is basically server-class 10-20k machines which Apple is definitely not competing with (and SSDs are not really that much better in that class anyway). Dismissing SSDs as “gaming” parts as if it’s diminishing the quality misunderstands what’s happening here. It would be one thing if WD was ignoring fsyncs to achieve this performance but gamers don’t care about writes so much anyway and there’s no indication WD did that. Source: I have the WD and Samsung parts as well as cheapo random SSDs.
- twoparachute45 2y ago
  The other product lines would be WD Blues (marketed at "creative professionals working with large files") and WD Reds (marketed specifically for use in NAS's), but neither of these really support the argument that the SN850x isn't a good comparison, because both the Blue and Red lines are cheaper and less performant (and the Blues are even rated for less longevity), and just make it seem like Apple is price gouging even more. The point I was trying to make by pointing out that the SN850x isn't a "gaming part" is that the SN850x is literally the top-of-the-line, most expensive consumer SSD sold by WD, and has practically the same specs as other top-of-the-line, most expensive competing parts like the Samsung 990 Pro. Being one of the most expensive SSDs on the market means that saying that the SN850x is a bad comparison because it's supposedly "lower price" is just false on its face.
  - Retric 2y ago
    Ahh you misunderstood what the lower prices is in reference to. Gaming parts often have a real premium, it’s specifically the price at a specific performance level where they preform well. To be more clear, getting equal performance without sacrificing anything would raise costs even further.
- Retric 2y ago
  I personally don’t think anything is a great comparison. It’s easy to say moderate premium over normal business grade SSD’s but that doesn’t mean any specific number is correct. I’d say the equivalent to a 130$ to 220$ SSD assuming a stand alone equivalent exited, but the actual number depending on info Apple isn’t sharing. And yes the range is both above and below the specific part suggested.

Retric 2y ago

There’s a lot of diversity under that “3D TLC” umbrella. But anyway, in what world isn’t this a gaming product: https://shop.sandisk.com/products/ssd/internal-ssd/wd-black-sn850x-nvme-ssd?sku=WDS200T2X0E-00BCA0 https://shop.sandisk.com/products/ssd/internal-ssd/wd-black-... “Built for elite gaming. Crush load times and slash throttling, lagging, and texture pop-ins with the WD_BLACK SN850X NVMe™ SSD. … Do more with WD_BLACK Dashboard The downloadable WD_BLACK Dashboard (Windows® only) monitors your drive’s health, lets you customize your RGB lighting, and, exclusively on the SN850X SSD, enables Game Mode 2.0 to transform your gaming experience.”

twoparachute45 2y ago
> There’s a lot of diversity under that “3D TLC” umbrella. There really isn't. Apple is reported to use SanDisk 3D TLC NAND chips. SanDisk is owned by Western Digital, and the WD SSDs use SanDisk chips. They're literally the same chips.
- Retric 2y ago
  They could in theory come off the same assembly line, that doesn’t mean the everything is identical. Hell WD chips could be of higher quality as I am not suggesting I know their internal processes. I am saying things are optimized differently.
  - pdpi 2y ago
    > They could in theory come off the same assembly line, that doesn’t mean the everything is identical. It could just come down to different binning of the same part, and it would still make a difference.
  - izacus 2y ago
    At this point of the conversation, you seem to be really grasping for theoretical stuff to defent Apple's margins with very little proof. Why?
    - 2y ago