7 ms·

38 years of advocacy for more degrowth and regulations in Europe.

by dtquad 2y ago

xnacly 2y ago
Can you elaborate?
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  CCC has a mix of talks from deeply technical to political/societal, and the latter are heavily left/environmentalist slanted.
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    Yeah it's pretty activistic in a progressive way but that goes hand in hand with hacker culture. At least in Europe. It's part of the attraction for me. Though I don't go to CCC but I do to other events.
  - xnacly 2y ago
    Yeah but thats a good thing :)
    - saturn8601 2y ago
      No it is not. It leads to blind spots and a poor understanding of whats really happening in the world when you are presenting niche ideas as if they are the future thats just around the corner. CCC really needs to vet these speakers better or else just give up and invite anyone to present nonsense.
ralfd 2y ago
Your snark is a bit unfair. But I also noted how far-left and anti-capitalistic many talks/speaker are. I guess it shows the power differential between US vs Europe/Germany and also the difference between disrupting American and risk-averse European culture? Super smart people in the Bay Area found startups to get rich (and invent the future). Super smart people in Germany can only go into academia and research how to decolonize digital activism.
- jeffreygoesto 2y ago
  Maybe it is a valid position to ask where the money for "get rich" comes from and if society would be different if it wasn't all about that money trickling upwards? Have you been to schools or nursing homes lately, having to let dear relatives go there?
  - cbmuser 2y ago
    Have been to any actual socialist country? Have experienced what scarcity means and what it feels like to be locked into your own country without a real chance of leaving until you reach retirement age?
    - ahartmetz 2y ago
      I have yet to see someone advocating for actual socialism. There is a huge difference between social democracy and socialism, but it's a popular argumentation technique in the US to pretend that they are the same.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - mytailorisrich 2y ago
        There are socialist parties in every European countries, and some of them get a lot of votes. In Germany, Die Linke is anti-capitalist and advocates "actual socialism" and current has 39 MPs in the Bundestag. In France, LFI (France Unbowed) is anti-capitalist and advocates "actual socialism" and currently has 71 MPs in the French parliament (second largest party by number of MPs...). There are also several smaller parties that are more "hardcore", including the historic French Communist Party that still has 8 MPs and 14 Senators... Now I do agree that social democracy is not socialism, but again, plenty of socialists in Europe, too. On a related note, when people claim that they are "anti-capitalist" (which seems to be more popular than claiming to be socialist) it does not really leave many alternatives, just semantic flavours of socialism.
andrepd 2y ago
No need to sell it to me, I'm already sold!
usr1106 2y ago
Unfortunately not enough. I hate living in a European colony exploited by unethical US oligopolists.
- dralley 2y ago
  Having some domestic competition would be preferable, would it not?
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    you should think about at what things you want to compete
saturn8601 2y ago
ain't that the damn truth! I was at 37C3 and they had these knucklehead presenters advocating to essentially pass legislation to have people take more public transport like buses and they were proposing this as a worldwide solution while also criticizing companies like Tesla that they are just "green washing". I had to be the first to line up to a mic to give them a piece of my mind. I asked them have they even been to the US(many Europeans just cannot internalize the true scale of the country) Also asked what are they going to do when the populations starts to lash out against these forced proposals and turn to the far side of the other aisle in response. They didn't seem convinced and got applause for their response. Well given that a year has passed and the political shockwaves we have seen all around the world, I had the last laugh (unfortunately). I also realized how much of a bubble these 'enlightened hackers' are in. They are so convinced of their intelligence that they just totally reject what the populations of the world are really thinking. It was really an eye opening moment for me as I have been a fan of CCC for decades since I was a little kid.

38 years of advocacy for more degrowth and regulations in Europe.

by dtquad 2y ago

38 years of advocacy for more degrowth and regulations in Europe.

xnacly 2y ago

Can you elaborate?

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
CCC has a mix of talks from deeply technical to political/societal, and the latter are heavily left/environmentalist slanted.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Yeah it's pretty activistic in a progressive way but that goes hand in hand with hacker culture. At least in Europe. It's part of the attraction for me. Though I don't go to CCC but I do to other events.
- xnacly 2y ago
  Yeah but thats a good thing :)
  - saturn8601 2y ago
    No it is not. It leads to blind spots and a poor understanding of whats really happening in the world when you are presenting niche ideas as if they are the future thats just around the corner. CCC really needs to vet these speakers better or else just give up and invite anyone to present nonsense.

ralfd 2y ago

Your snark is a bit unfair. But I also noted how far-left and anti-capitalistic many talks/speaker are. I guess it shows the power differential between US vs Europe/Germany and also the difference between disrupting American and risk-averse European culture? Super smart people in the Bay Area found startups to get rich (and invent the future). Super smart people in Germany can only go into academia and research how to decolonize digital activism.

jeffreygoesto 2y ago
Maybe it is a valid position to ask where the money for "get rich" comes from and if society would be different if it wasn't all about that money trickling upwards? Have you been to schools or nursing homes lately, having to let dear relatives go there?
- cbmuser 2y ago
  Have been to any actual socialist country? Have experienced what scarcity means and what it feels like to be locked into your own country without a real chance of leaving until you reach retirement age?
  - ahartmetz 2y ago
    I have yet to see someone advocating for actual socialism. There is a huge difference between social democracy and socialism, but it's a popular argumentation technique in the US to pretend that they are the same.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - mytailorisrich 2y ago
      There are socialist parties in every European countries, and some of them get a lot of votes. In Germany, Die Linke is anti-capitalist and advocates "actual socialism" and current has 39 MPs in the Bundestag. In France, LFI (France Unbowed) is anti-capitalist and advocates "actual socialism" and currently has 71 MPs in the French parliament (second largest party by number of MPs...). There are also several smaller parties that are more "hardcore", including the historic French Communist Party that still has 8 MPs and 14 Senators... Now I do agree that social democracy is not socialism, but again, plenty of socialists in Europe, too. On a related note, when people claim that they are "anti-capitalist" (which seems to be more popular than claiming to be socialist) it does not really leave many alternatives, just semantic flavours of socialism.

andrepd 2y ago

No need to sell it to me, I'm already sold!

usr1106 2y ago

Unfortunately not enough. I hate living in a European colony exploited by unethical US oligopolists.

dralley 2y ago
Having some domestic competition would be preferable, would it not?
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  you should think about at what things you want to compete

saturn8601 2y ago

ain't that the damn truth! I was at 37C3 and they had these knucklehead presenters advocating to essentially pass legislation to have people take more public transport like buses and they were proposing this as a worldwide solution while also criticizing companies like Tesla that they are just "green washing". I had to be the first to line up to a mic to give them a piece of my mind. I asked them have they even been to the US(many Europeans just cannot internalize the true scale of the country) Also asked what are they going to do when the populations starts to lash out against these forced proposals and turn to the far side of the other aisle in response. They didn't seem convinced and got applause for their response. Well given that a year has passed and the political shockwaves we have seen all around the world, I had the last laugh (unfortunately). I also realized how much of a bubble these 'enlightened hackers' are in. They are so convinced of their intelligence that they just totally reject what the populations of the world are really thinking. It was really an eye opening moment for me as I have been a fan of CCC for decades since I was a little kid.