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Big yikes. You don’t think so? Have you learned a second language? Anki and any flash card system can be a small step in the right direction and that is huge!

trinix912 2y ago
Let's be honest, if you've been avoiding learning it for years, it's hard to see how a flash card system is going to turn the entire thing around. It still takes a lot of discipline and effort to stick to it. If you already live there, forget flash cards, take a basic in-person course then just pick up a newspaper, turn on the TV, talk to that gas station employee in your broken German... Having actual conversations, no matter how broken, is IMHO way more beneficial than any app or course. And yes, I've learnt several languages (including German) this way. There's countless ways, but in the end it pretty much boils down to the willingness to learn it, not an optimal learning method.
- samrolken 2y ago
  I think it’s possible that it can be a useful step. Fleshing out vocabulary can help with all the real-world use, because you’ll have more context and can fill in meanings, and get more out of real world use. But probably only as a booster to real world use. By itself, it does very little.
watwut 2y ago
I did learned two foreign languages and did not used flashcards memorization of new words. It was recommended against by the teachers anyway, unless you actually like it. Anki seems to be good for you to create a system where you do not forget the words you learned and keep being able to translate them there and back. But it is not nearly the same as making you "acquire" those words or making you learn new words. Flashcards can be help, somewhat to learning foreign language. But they are not necessary nor able to teach you to communicate by themselves.
- timr 2y ago
  > Anki seems to be good for you to create a system where you do not forget the words you learned and keep being able to translate them there and back. But it is not nearly the same as making you "acquire" those words or making you learn new words. I agree. Far and away, the fastest way for me to acquire a new word is to use it incorrectly in conversation. My theory is that the emotion of social embarrassment makes it stick (there is some research associating strong emotion with learning). Maybe there's something about the act of using the word that also adds to the impact, because similarly, if I learn a new word for the first time in conversation, I rarely forget it. Words acquired via flashcards or reading or whatever take ages to stick in my brain, and then I usually have to go through another learning process it be able to use them effectively in real life.
twixfel 2y ago
I disagree, I got to B2 in 2 years in Germany by simply making time to go to my local Volkshochschule to learn (i.e. evening classes). Why? Because it was fun and I enjoyed learning a langauge. If you want to learn, you will. If living in Germany for eight years doesn't really make you want to take learning German seriously, then what will? I know many people who've been in Germany 10+ years and can't speak German. Honestly, if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years. But they are built differently, they are somehow happy anyway. I would not be. And Anki is a nicety but won't revolutionise your learning. In fact in the end I stopped using it and switched to just reading German books and watching German movies.
- watwut 2y ago
  > if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years They live in English/Russian/Turkish/Arabic speaking bubbles. They are not isolated from people, only from Germans.
  - twixfel 2y ago
    I understand that perfectly, but that's still isolation from wider society. Like living like a Gypsy or an illiterate Pakistani housewife in Northern England. Why would I actively choose that life for myself, when it's not the one I was born into? So I learned German. But somehow these people are happy anyway. And I don't get it. But I guess to be happy no matter what is a good skill to have, so I don't think I'm better than them or anything like that. I don't buy into this shit "oh you're in Germany you must learn because it's disrespectful not to", either.
    - watwut 2y ago
      Illiterate Pakistany housewifes are connected to other Pakistani housewifes. Their loneliness levels are lower then ours. Likewise Gypsies - they live very communally and socially. We are perceived as cold and non-communal by them. Their issues are poverty, violence, lack of education that makes it impossible for you to really earn money. The expats speaking English do not have these issues.

trinix912 2y ago

Let's be honest, if you've been avoiding learning it for years, it's hard to see how a flash card system is going to turn the entire thing around. It still takes a lot of discipline and effort to stick to it. If you already live there, forget flash cards, take a basic in-person course then just pick up a newspaper, turn on the TV, talk to that gas station employee in your broken German... Having actual conversations, no matter how broken, is IMHO way more beneficial than any app or course. And yes, I've learnt several languages (including German) this way. There's countless ways, but in the end it pretty much boils down to the willingness to learn it, not an optimal learning method.

samrolken 2y ago
I think it’s possible that it can be a useful step. Fleshing out vocabulary can help with all the real-world use, because you’ll have more context and can fill in meanings, and get more out of real world use. But probably only as a booster to real world use. By itself, it does very little.

watwut 2y ago

I did learned two foreign languages and did not used flashcards memorization of new words. It was recommended against by the teachers anyway, unless you actually like it. Anki seems to be good for you to create a system where you do not forget the words you learned and keep being able to translate them there and back. But it is not nearly the same as making you "acquire" those words or making you learn new words. Flashcards can be help, somewhat to learning foreign language. But they are not necessary nor able to teach you to communicate by themselves.

timr 2y ago
> Anki seems to be good for you to create a system where you do not forget the words you learned and keep being able to translate them there and back. But it is not nearly the same as making you "acquire" those words or making you learn new words. I agree. Far and away, the fastest way for me to acquire a new word is to use it incorrectly in conversation. My theory is that the emotion of social embarrassment makes it stick (there is some research associating strong emotion with learning). Maybe there's something about the act of using the word that also adds to the impact, because similarly, if I learn a new word for the first time in conversation, I rarely forget it. Words acquired via flashcards or reading or whatever take ages to stick in my brain, and then I usually have to go through another learning process it be able to use them effectively in real life.

twixfel 2y ago

I disagree, I got to B2 in 2 years in Germany by simply making time to go to my local Volkshochschule to learn (i.e. evening classes). Why? Because it was fun and I enjoyed learning a langauge. If you want to learn, you will. If living in Germany for eight years doesn't really make you want to take learning German seriously, then what will? I know many people who've been in Germany 10+ years and can't speak German. Honestly, if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years. But they are built differently, they are somehow happy anyway. I would not be. And Anki is a nicety but won't revolutionise your learning. In fact in the end I stopped using it and switched to just reading German books and watching German movies.

watwut 2y ago
> if I was them I'd have either left or killed myself by now, I cannot fathom sustaining that isolation for ten years They live in English/Russian/Turkish/Arabic speaking bubbles. They are not isolated from people, only from Germans.
- twixfel 2y ago
  I understand that perfectly, but that's still isolation from wider society. Like living like a Gypsy or an illiterate Pakistani housewife in Northern England. Why would I actively choose that life for myself, when it's not the one I was born into? So I learned German. But somehow these people are happy anyway. And I don't get it. But I guess to be happy no matter what is a good skill to have, so I don't think I'm better than them or anything like that. I don't buy into this shit "oh you're in Germany you must learn because it's disrespectful not to", either.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Illiterate Pakistany housewifes are connected to other Pakistani housewifes. Their loneliness levels are lower then ours. Likewise Gypsies - they live very communally and socially. We are perceived as cold and non-communal by them. Their issues are poverty, violence, lack of education that makes it impossible for you to really earn money. The expats speaking English do not have these issues.