7 ms·

First-time home owners have increased in age[0], the middle class is shrinking[1], education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3].

by _qbxi 2y ago

First-time home owners have increased in age[0], the middle class is shrinking[1], education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3]. Perhaps the generalized fear is not so much about "coddling", but concrete realities. I do not envy them. [0] https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023 https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-old... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-a... [2] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-co... [3] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/how-does-medical-inflation-compare-to-inflation-in-the-rest-of-the-economy/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/how-does-medical-i...

mmooss 2y ago
Also the insane political risks and social instability, climate change, heightened risks of war and econmomic calamity, housing cost increase.
- MarcelOlsz 2y ago
  All I want in life is a good union for software. Role finished this week, who needs me next week? Off I go.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    How would a union help you move between roles? Or are you saying the opposite.
    - toast0 2y ago
      Most professional sports players are unionized and they move around all the time. :P I hope we get a union with a draft and such.
      - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        This would rule. I would watch the FAANG draft.
        MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        Actually, anyone who want's to scratch this itch just youtube the Excel World Championships. It's way more entertaining than it has any business being.
    - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
      In the sense of how certain trade unions function as a hiring hall. Like a centralized job assignment. We already have a version of it except it's a million splintered hiring/recruitment agencies that may or may not be good. Lot's of time wasted. Probably the wrong place to be barking up this tree though.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    The political instability, social instability, climate change, wars, and more will affect you whether or not you deny them.
    - aziaziazi 2y ago
      Those are easier to cope with when you live in a supportive society. _Most_ humans naturally help each others in case of emergency. It’s easier when the framework is already in place.
      - lizzas 2y ago
        People help each other in war? Catastophy? Sometimes they do, sometimes they definitely do not.
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        Yes they do [0]. [0] Poland's entire history.
        mmooss 2y ago
        Look up what people in Poland did to help Jewish Poles when the Nazis came in. Someone whose family was from a small town in Poland made a documentary about it maybe 10 years ago. Generations later people in the town were still covering up that their ancestors put the Jewish neighbors in a barn and set it on fire, and still strongly discouraging asking any questions. What happened to the property of the large Jewish population in Poland before the war? People do help each other. Look what Denmark and Bulgaria did in the same situation.
        MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        Yes I am aware of the "szmalcowniki", those that extorted Jews for profit and it is unfortunate. Are you aware of underground organizations like Żegota? Or Jan Karski who risked his life to document the Warsaw ghetto and providing munitions to the Jewish fighters in the uprising? Or the thousands of families that helped aid Jews like the Ulma family killed with the family they were hiding, or nun Matylda Getter who rescued hundreds of Jewish children, or Żabiński who hid hundreds in a zoo. Or the 7000+ poles recognized by Yad Vashem, the highest of any nation. Poland was the only occupied country where aiding Jews was punishable by death. I urge you to look into the following families and their roles in aiding jews in WWII: Ulma, Kowalski, Baranek, Zabinski, Kossak, Podgorski sisters, Wojciechowski, Baranek, Skoczylas, Jarosz, Przybylski, Wolski, Banasiewicz, Bartosiewicz and many others. Also, I meant more in the general sense of the populace resisting occupation time and time again seeing as we still have a country, which doesn't happen without sacrificing for one another. What town are you talking about btw? >Look what Denmark and Bulgaria did in the same situation. Yes they had much more time to evacuate their Jewish populations. We had the largest population and we were first to be invaded.
kasey_junk 2y ago
More of gen z are home owners than previous generations at that age[0], real wages are increasing for the lower and middle class for the first time since 1970[1]. More people are leaving the workforce than anytime in history, creating high paying trade job openings at an unprecedented rate[2]. Health care costs are growing slower now than any prior decade[3]. Every generation has challenges and benefits. Framing the narrative can happen in any direction and the variance in group is bigger than the variance between. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/09/05/how-gen-z-outpaces-past-generations-in-homeownership-rate.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/09/05/how-gen-z-outpaces-past-... [1] https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americans-wages-are-higher-than-they-have-ever-been-and-employment-is-near-its-all-time-high/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americans-wages-are... [2] https://www.protectedincome.org/news/labor-day-peak-65-trades-hit-hardest/ https://www.protectedincome.org/news/labor-day-peak-65-trade... [3] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#Total%20national%20health%20expenditures%20as%20a%20percent%20of%20Gross%20Domestic%20Product,%201970-2023 https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe...
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  [0] needs to breakout what proportion of the homeowners received help from parents, either via free rent or cash.
  - kasey_junk 2y ago
    [0] in the parent comment needs to note most of the increase comes from older people living and staying in their houses longer rather than dying, moving to facilities or in with family.
- Uehreka 2y ago
  > More of gen z are home owners than previous generations at that age[0] If you’re going to make a claim this bold and this counter to the prevailing narrative, you’re gonna need to cite a better source than an outbrain-riddled webpage that tells me to “watch our video to find the lede we buried”. I’m not saying this isn’t true, but extraordinary claims require good sourcing and explanation.
notyourwork 2y ago
Society hasn’t setup future society to be better. It’s a grab and go everywhere you look and it’s tiring. This is coming from a millennial with a good tech job. I cannot imagine how younger generations feel.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- speakfreely 2y ago
  This is the inevitable result of higher connectivity in society. More spoils flow to top performers due to the reduced friction. I don't see any way to undo this trend short of undoing the connectivity, i.e. forcibly rolling back technological progress. Kind of a non-starter.
speakfreely 2y ago
First-time home buyers are getting squeezed by a combination of peaking market forces, but those forces are peaking and we're probably seeing the worst of it at this moment [1]. It will get better. [1] https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/why-i-dont-invest-in-real-estate https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/why-i-dont-inv...
- AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
  Their arguments for "won't go up much" are reasonable but their arguments for "will actually fall enough to allow two generations to finally own homes" are pretty fucking nonsensical. They're comparing to hosting dips in the world wars and while I assure you ww3 will have enough loss of life to make houses quite cheap a third time, you still won't want them because they'll be covered in radioactive contamination. The issue isn't blind supply and demand, it's that we've made construction expensive through code and arbitrary supply chain constraints and we're planning to deport all the construction workers. Even if population grown naturally slows to zero we will simply stop building houses because it won't be profitable. That's what got us here in the first place.
  - MikeRichardson 2y ago
    > code I quite like the parts of the code that prevent random electric shocks, and the parts that keep the roof from caving in, etc. (I assume you meant building codes) The forthcoming mass deportation will definitely fuck shit up though. UK is having a similar issue due to Brexit. I guess Eastern Europeans are to the UK, as Mexicans/etc. are to the US?
    - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
      I didn't want to get into a huge aside so I just left it there but imo the NEC et al are absolutely great. In a lot of ways current building standards actually make things easier and cheaper, they remove ambiguity and offer a set of best practices that are time tested to reduce labor and errors. The issue is how local municipalities enforce it along with zoning to make building massively more bureaucratic. Reaching the right people is impossible, everyone has their own agenda and interpretation, and city councils across the country add arbitrary stipulations entirely to reduce construction so line goes up.
formerly_proven 2y ago
> education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3]. This is basically a law of nature. Anything that's done by humans and can't be scaled will necessarily get more expensive in real terms over time. See: Baumol effect.

by _qbxi 2y ago

mmooss 2y ago

Also the insane political risks and social instability, climate change, heightened risks of war and econmomic calamity, housing cost increase.

MarcelOlsz 2y ago
All I want in life is a good union for software. Role finished this week, who needs me next week? Off I go.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  How would a union help you move between roles? Or are you saying the opposite.
  - toast0 2y ago
    Most professional sports players are unionized and they move around all the time. :P I hope we get a union with a draft and such.
    - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
      This would rule. I would watch the FAANG draft.
      - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        Actually, anyone who want's to scratch this itch just youtube the Excel World Championships. It's way more entertaining than it has any business being.
  - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
    In the sense of how certain trade unions function as a hiring hall. Like a centralized job assignment. We already have a version of it except it's a million splintered hiring/recruitment agencies that may or may not be good. Lot's of time wasted. Probably the wrong place to be barking up this tree though.
- mmooss 2y ago
  The political instability, social instability, climate change, wars, and more will affect you whether or not you deny them.
  - aziaziazi 2y ago
    Those are easier to cope with when you live in a supportive society. _Most_ humans naturally help each others in case of emergency. It’s easier when the framework is already in place.
    - lizzas 2y ago
      People help each other in war? Catastophy? Sometimes they do, sometimes they definitely do not.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        Yes they do [0]. [0] Poland's entire history.
        mmooss 2y ago
        Look up what people in Poland did to help Jewish Poles when the Nazis came in. Someone whose family was from a small town in Poland made a documentary about it maybe 10 years ago. Generations later people in the town were still covering up that their ancestors put the Jewish neighbors in a barn and set it on fire, and still strongly discouraging asking any questions. What happened to the property of the large Jewish population in Poland before the war? People do help each other. Look what Denmark and Bulgaria did in the same situation.
        MarcelOlsz 2y ago
        Yes I am aware of the "szmalcowniki", those that extorted Jews for profit and it is unfortunate. Are you aware of underground organizations like Żegota? Or Jan Karski who risked his life to document the Warsaw ghetto and providing munitions to the Jewish fighters in the uprising? Or the thousands of families that helped aid Jews like the Ulma family killed with the family they were hiding, or nun Matylda Getter who rescued hundreds of Jewish children, or Żabiński who hid hundreds in a zoo. Or the 7000+ poles recognized by Yad Vashem, the highest of any nation. Poland was the only occupied country where aiding Jews was punishable by death. I urge you to look into the following families and their roles in aiding jews in WWII: Ulma, Kowalski, Baranek, Zabinski, Kossak, Podgorski sisters, Wojciechowski, Baranek, Skoczylas, Jarosz, Przybylski, Wolski, Banasiewicz, Bartosiewicz and many others. Also, I meant more in the general sense of the populace resisting occupation time and time again seeing as we still have a country, which doesn't happen without sacrificing for one another. What town are you talking about btw? >Look what Denmark and Bulgaria did in the same situation. Yes they had much more time to evacuate their Jewish populations. We had the largest population and we were first to be invaded.

kasey_junk 2y ago

More of gen z are home owners than previous generations at that age[0], real wages are increasing for the lower and middle class for the first time since 1970[1]. More people are leaving the workforce than anytime in history, creating high paying trade job openings at an unprecedented rate[2]. Health care costs are growing slower now than any prior decade[3]. Every generation has challenges and benefits. Framing the narrative can happen in any direction and the variance in group is bigger than the variance between. [0] https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/09/05/how-gen-z-outpaces-past-generations-in-homeownership-rate.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/09/05/how-gen-z-outpaces-past-... [1] https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americans-wages-are-higher-than-they-have-ever-been-and-employment-is-near-its-all-time-high/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/americans-wages-are... [2] https://www.protectedincome.org/news/labor-day-peak-65-trades-hit-hardest/ https://www.protectedincome.org/news/labor-day-peak-65-trade... [3] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/#Total%20national%20health%20expenditures%20as%20a%20percent%20of%20Gross%20Domestic%20Product,%201970-2023 https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spe...

lotsofpulp 2y ago
[0] needs to breakout what proportion of the homeowners received help from parents, either via free rent or cash.
- kasey_junk 2y ago
  [0] in the parent comment needs to note most of the increase comes from older people living and staying in their houses longer rather than dying, moving to facilities or in with family.
Uehreka 2y ago
> More of gen z are home owners than previous generations at that age[0] If you’re going to make a claim this bold and this counter to the prevailing narrative, you’re gonna need to cite a better source than an outbrain-riddled webpage that tells me to “watch our video to find the lede we buried”. I’m not saying this isn’t true, but extraordinary claims require good sourcing and explanation.

notyourwork 2y ago

Society hasn’t setup future society to be better. It’s a grab and go everywhere you look and it’s tiring. This is coming from a millennial with a good tech job. I cannot imagine how younger generations feel.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
speakfreely 2y ago
This is the inevitable result of higher connectivity in society. More spoils flow to top performers due to the reduced friction. I don't see any way to undo this trend short of undoing the connectivity, i.e. forcibly rolling back technological progress. Kind of a non-starter.

speakfreely 2y ago

First-time home buyers are getting squeezed by a combination of peaking market forces, but those forces are peaking and we're probably seeing the worst of it at this moment [1]. It will get better. [1] https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/why-i-dont-invest-in-real-estate https://unchartedterritories.tomaspueyo.com/p/why-i-dont-inv...

AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
Their arguments for "won't go up much" are reasonable but their arguments for "will actually fall enough to allow two generations to finally own homes" are pretty fucking nonsensical. They're comparing to hosting dips in the world wars and while I assure you ww3 will have enough loss of life to make houses quite cheap a third time, you still won't want them because they'll be covered in radioactive contamination. The issue isn't blind supply and demand, it's that we've made construction expensive through code and arbitrary supply chain constraints and we're planning to deport all the construction workers. Even if population grown naturally slows to zero we will simply stop building houses because it won't be profitable. That's what got us here in the first place.
- MikeRichardson 2y ago
  > code I quite like the parts of the code that prevent random electric shocks, and the parts that keep the roof from caving in, etc. (I assume you meant building codes) The forthcoming mass deportation will definitely fuck shit up though. UK is having a similar issue due to Brexit. I guess Eastern Europeans are to the UK, as Mexicans/etc. are to the US?
  - AnarchismIsCool 2y ago
    I didn't want to get into a huge aside so I just left it there but imo the NEC et al are absolutely great. In a lot of ways current building standards actually make things easier and cheaper, they remove ambiguity and offer a set of best practices that are time tested to reduce labor and errors. The issue is how local municipalities enforce it along with zoning to make building massively more bureaucratic. Reaching the right people is impossible, everyone has their own agenda and interpretation, and city councils across the country add arbitrary stipulations entirely to reduce construction so line goes up.

formerly_proven 2y ago

> education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3]. This is basically a law of nature. Anything that's done by humans and can't be scaled will necessarily get more expensive in real terms over time. See: Baumol effect.