9 ms·

Another aspect here I think is the generalized fear and anxiety present in young people. Having spoken to some family members in the 15-18 age bracket, the mess

by oortoo 2y ago

Another aspect here I think is the generalized fear and anxiety present in young people. Having spoken to some family members in the 15-18 age bracket, the message they seem to be receiving is that they are without a future... they won't be buying homes, they won't be getting high paying jobs, and that the system is not going to work in their favor. I think people of this age are uniquely feeling mortal and vulnerable in a way teens typically have not, causing them to be more hesitant to risk losing their mind which they may need to protect themselves down the road. But they also are modern teenagers, not only low in willpower but also coddled by their smartphones, which is why technology addiction is the go to "safer" alternative to habitual drug use. Also, you typically need to be unsupervised with friends to get into drugs, something teenagers no longer have access to compared to 10-15 years ago. If we look at the social decline due to the pandemic, what made experts think these kids would bounce back? They are forever changed, and will forever be less social than other generations because they missed out on formative experiences.

yieldcrv 2y ago
> uniquely feeling mortal and vulnerable in a way teens typically have not, causing them to be more hesitant to risk losing their mind which they may need to protect themselves down the road its just as easy to reach the exact opposite conclusion when everything is so hopeless and nihilistic. you are extrapolating way too much here. less unsupervised time, location tracking from parents, unregulated dopamine from chatgroups and algorithms in public social media, and the risk of fentany and other poisons in drugs, are much better contributors to extrapolate from
crtified 2y ago
I imagine that, for the young people of the world, the Covid years really ripped away the illusion that the adults of the world are in competent control. To a degree that modern generations (from otherwise relatively stable, wealthy countries) have never experienced. While there are other major factors clearly contributing to the generational angst, I think this was the catalyst. I wonder how the economics stack up, because intoxicants aren't free. If the researchers are saying there's X less drug use, then presumably that either implies (a) teenagers are now spending X more on other areas instead (and what are they?), or (b) teenagers now have X less money.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  See also: anyone who lived through the decline and fall of the USSR.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    Presumably you’re referring to disillusioning a generation, right? I wonder if the masses had smartphones in 1992 if they would have withdrew to the internet rather than vodka. Genuine question - yours is an interesting connection because the circumstances of disillusionment are so different.
    - makeitdouble 2y ago
      Online services have displaced at least: - the TV - the radio - board games - card games - video games - theaters - phones and faxes - the mail Perhaps the above where the equivalent of vodka to some of you, but I wouldn't look at someone with their smartphone and think "wow, they're getting wasted !"
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        It replaced those things but that list doesn’t include the major time sinks, besides TV: social media, porn, doomscrolling. We already made fun of TV zombies, and at the worst it absolutely can remind me of a drunk or unstable person.
        makeitdouble 2y ago
        I understand how much people are emotionally reactive to these part of the net, and the cultural hatred some can have for "unproductive" time (does it match what you call "time sinks"?) I still don't think they stand on the same foot as vodka.
        titanomachy 2y ago
_qbxi 2y ago
First-time home owners have increased in age[0], the middle class is shrinking[1], education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3]. Perhaps the generalized fear is not so much about "coddling", but concrete realities. I do not envy them. [0] https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023 https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-old... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-a... [2] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-co... [3] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/how-does-medical-inflation-compare-to-inflation-in-the-rest-of-the-economy/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/how-does-medical-i...
- mmooss 2y ago
  Also the insane political risks and social instability, climate change, heightened risks of war and econmomic calamity, housing cost increase.
  - MarcelOlsz 2y ago
    All I want in life is a good union for software. Role finished this week, who needs me next week? Off I go.
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      How would a union help you move between roles? Or are you saying the opposite.
      - toast0 2y ago
        Most professional sports players are unionized and they move around all the time. :P I hope we get a union with a draft and such.
plagiarist 2y ago
Your last point was my knee-jerk reaction, "where are they going to do drugs? There are fewer and fewer places available to spend time without paying a fee." I'd like to know if that's true or just a mistaken impression on my part.
jajko 2y ago
> they won't be buying homes, they won't be getting high paying jobs, and that the system is not going to work in their favor I dont have a clue what your upbringing looked like, but even up to around age of 25, I never ever expected nor was told to expect any of that. The success despite all that is much sweeter. Maybe thats some US thing, being raised in eastern Europe you were born to shit, you were considered insignificant shit and that was about it. Thats what being occupied for 4 decades by russians causes to society, on top of other bad stuff they are so natural with. Maybe stop telling kids how they are all special and great and all will be astronauts and let them figure it all out by themselves? Teenagers being frustrated that they wont be owning some posh expensive house, thats pretty fucked up upbringing and life goals to be polite, thats not success in life in any meaningful way. I recommend checking biggest regrets of dying people, focus on careers and money hoarding are consistently at the top.
- yks 2y ago
  It didn't even cross my mind until the very late teens that it might be possible for me to own a flat one day, the sums involved sounded not much different than a "gazillion dollars", but that particular future outlook definitely had zero effect on my behavior.
- acuozzo 2y ago
  > Teenagers being frustrated that they wont be owning some posh expensive house Posh expensive house? Nowhere was that mentioned. The post-WWII 20th century American social contract was: "You will have the ability to get married, live in a modest home of your own, own a car, raise 2-3 young children, and go on a modest annual vacation even if you work in a factory".
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > The post-WWII 20th century American social contract was: "You will have the ability to get married, live in a modest home of your own, own a car, raise 2-3 young children, and go on a modest annual vacation even if you work in a factory" Few under 50 actually want a suburban home in a no-name town with a single domestic holiday a year and a job requiring physical labor (and hard limits on clocking in and out) that feeds your family with industrial calories. If you do, you can get that with practically zero training in a mid-tier hospitality job (or working as an e.g. bank teller) with an hour commute each way. Small-town suburban homes are cheap.
legitster 2y ago
I have had the opposite observation. Millenials and older Gen Z have extremely pessimistic takes on the future. Our childhoods were some of the most materially comfortable in human history, and everything in comparison is downhill from there. But high schoolers I know today seem more even keeled about things. They are graduating into a world where fast food jobs start at $17, no one needs to go to college if they don't want to, and they are accustomed to a world where everything is temporary and digital. I think the strongest evidence of this is the sharp decline in military recruitment.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Millennials had high hopes and were disappointed; Gen Z didn't have high hopes.
  - corimaith 2y ago
    Exactly. In 2014 I really thought we'd have flying cars, exploring space and world peace by 2024. Instead everything looks the same, regressed even in some areas and all-around alot more cynical
- bitwalker 2y ago
  You might not need to go to college, but you're going into significant debt if you do, so now one has to decide which disadvantage they want to start their career with: no degree, or crippling debt. A fast food job might be $17/hr, but the cost of gas is >2x what it was when that same job paid $8/hr, not to mention other basic costs like groceries, rent, and buckle up if you have to go to the doctor. Pay has simply not kept up with the cost of living for most Americans. Why would anyone be happy that everything is ephemeral? That implies a lack of stability, more anxiety about the future, less confidence that you can weather bad times. Humans are tactile creatures, everything being digital leads to a counter-intuitive sense of isolation - more connected, but less personal. There are positives too, but as an older Millennial, it has been interesting to be along for the ride as the potential of the internet and social media went from a superpower, to kryptonite. Who knows where things will be in 5-10 years, but it's hard not to see how some of our greatest tools are being turned against us in the search for more profit. Millennials are, if anything, brutally realistic - a trait required to navigate the last 16 years. We were forced to watch as the last bit of life in the idea of a strong middle class was snuffed out, and had to enter the workforce right as the GFC hit. Our parents were the last generation where one could reasonably expect to live a life that truly lived up to the ideal of the American Dream - that one could get educated, get a job, buy a decent house and raise a family, without it being especially noteworthy to do so. For many Millennials, if not every generation following, it is essentially nothing more than a dream at this point. Corporate greed, and a government fully captured by it, has all but killed the middle class, and I fully expect that the advent of AI - rather than being a boon for the middle class - will drive a nail in its coffin. Those with the most to gain are already on top, and I've already heard way more people here talk about what they'll be able to do without needing to hire anyone, than I have about how the people left jobless will benefit. It is readily apparent that nobody with any power is going to do anything about it before a significant amount of suffering is felt - maybe not even then. All you have to do is listen to how people talk about it, as if everyone will magically figure out something else to do when every sector starts losing jobs simultaneously. Our society has a greater chance of eating itself alive first. I consider myself lucky amongst most Millennials - I entered the workforce before the GFC, then joined the military shortly after it (not due to the GFC, but the timing worked out). I was able to get far enough along in my career in those first years though that I never had to struggle with finding a job like many did. I was able to get a house in my 30s thanks to the GI bill. Very few of those I grew up with are in the same boat, many are living much the same as they were 15 years ago - unable to save enough to buy a house, facing reduced job prospects in the future. What reason do they have to be anything _but_ pessimistic? For me personally, I think we've simply lost the battle against greed, and there is a tipping point after which reigning it back in is impossible without burning it all down. That's something nobody should want, least of all the rich, but it's played out many times in history, and we keep falling into the same trap, just different ways. I think this time it probably was Citizens United where we lost our grip, that decision made it inevitable that corporate interests would be the driving force of government, not the needs of its people. Who can say for sure what will happen, but we're all along for the ride regardless.
LorenzoGood 2y ago
As a person in that age bracket, I don't feel like my peers and I are lacking in opportunities to participate in drug & alcohol use. As to why I choose to abstain, I honestly am just not interested in drinking or doing drugs. I don't see any benefit to it socially, since I have more fun with my friends doing things while they are sober, and I don't want to be one of those adults that can't socialize without it. Also, the consequences for getting caught are high.
- sundvor 2y ago
  I'm very pleased to see this sentiment, as a father of a 14 year old boy. 4 years ago I decided to quit alcohol altogether (from a moderate by Australian standards consumption), and I hope to be a positive influence on him through his formative years through open and honest conversations about the topic. (He has no desire to start drinking etc early or at all at this point.) Long term health impacts are high, as someone in my 50s I'm certainly doing better for my choice. And yes, not making stupid decisions under influence also cannot be underestimated.
- captnObvious 2y ago
  This is what I’m thinking. All of the kids I know from 16-22 are the most level headed group of young adults I’ve known. It is hilarious to me that this group of brilliant technologists leans so heavily towards seeing the absolute worst in every data point. Could it be that, kids are doing less drugs because they’re more informed, less bored, and less reckless than previous generations? We all aspire that our kids will do better than we have. We did our best to instill a sense of confidence and worth in them. What if it is finally starting to just, f’ing work?
  - sdiupIGPWEfh 2y ago
    > This is what I’m thinking. All of the kids I know from 16-22 are the most level headed group of young adults I’ve known. Taking this on a bit of a tangent, but as an elder millennial, I recall having been told (by elder relatives in their mid-30s at the time) all about how one day I'd too be an "old fogey" looking down on "teens being teens" and how such progression is just the way of things. Hell, I still hear people preaching such "wisdom" today to their youngers. Yet here I am, just past the age I'm supposedly meant to start ragging on "kids today", and all I can remark is that this same 16-22 set you speak of are remarkably respectful, polite, and considerate, perhaps more so than my own cohort at that age. I almost worry they're not rebellious enough for their own good.
jolmg 2y ago
> you typically need to be unsupervised with friends to get into drugs, something teenagers no longer have access to compared to 10-15 years ago. They don't? I'm pretty sure I saw unsupervised teens hanging out at a mall even just a few days ago.
- mr_toad 2y ago
  Gen X’s will probably remember being unsupervised from about the age they learned to ride a bike. I think we were the last “get home before dark” generation.
  - kortilla 2y ago
    Millennials were the same for the ones born in the late 80s and early 90s.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  Not to sound snarky, but please consider interpreting comments like these as making a statement about rate rather than an absolute binary.
  - jolmg 2y ago
    Right back at you. I was also commenting on rate rather than saying that I saw one or 2 in the last 10-15 years. Not all locations are the same though, so maybe there has been a noticeable decrease where you're at. Personally, I think I've felt an increase if anything.
    - exitb 2y ago
      These changes aren't always easy to spot. I live in a city that acquired a significant Ukrainian population over the last two years. Whenever I see a group of kids that biked to an arbitrary location and play, they turn out to be young Ukrainians. They do the exact thing local kids would do 20 years ago.
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
I suggest you read up on or watch a documentary on the 60s. We are fucking pampered today.
NotYourLawyer 2y ago
You’d think doomerism would lead to MORE drug use.
- john_minsk 2y ago
  Bad times create strong people.
  - john_minsk 2y ago
    To clarify, I really think that is what's happening. People feel that their future is not a guaranteed success and make safer choices to be clear minded and focused to achieve success. Probably just my bias is talking...
noobermin 2y ago
Today on HN, Jonathan Haidt afficionados lament the decline of use of addictive, life ruining, hard drugs. Something about "formative experiences." I think it's a good thing kids don't do hard drugs today, information addiction is a thing may be but going back to hard drugs isn't a good thing.
fy20 2y ago
> the message they seem to be receiving is that they are without a future... At least when I was that age, it was usually the low income people who's greatest achievement in life would be avoiding prison, who usually turned towards smoking, alcohol, drugs and sex. See "Common People" and similar 80s/90s Britpop songs. What changed? I grew up in a lower middle class family, and for me the feeling that I could end up like that - as many people I went to school with did - was what pushed me to achieve. My parents could only just afford their bills, so I didn't get any handouts from them. Of course I don't have a Lambo, so maybe I'm considered a failure by Gen Z? Has the boundary of what is considered "successful" shifted?
anal_reactor 2y ago
> Also, you typically need to be unsupervised with friends There's a bigger cultural shift going on where people just don't like hanging out with each other anymore.
sydd 2y ago
I don't think it's be cause if anxiety, it usually increases drug use not decreases. It's much more about people ha ing less friends and socializing less
lfmunoz4 2y ago
Good point, most people I know who refuse to do drugs (psychedelics) is due to fear
nostromo 2y ago
This isn't a new phenomenon though. Gen-X felt the same way. The entire youth culture at the time was based around the vibe that the culture sucked and there wasn't a future worth having for younger people. Apathy was the youth cultural vibe of the day. Then again with older millenials it happened with the great financial crisis. There was a widespread feeling of hopelessness about the future. Outsourcing and trade liberalization (the AI-like job crusher of that period) left the future job market uncertain. I think what's new now is social media and persistent phones. If you're feeling anxiety about the future you don't escape into wild parties, you escape into your phone and videogames.

by oortoo 2y ago

yieldcrv 2y ago

> uniquely feeling mortal and vulnerable in a way teens typically have not, causing them to be more hesitant to risk losing their mind which they may need to protect themselves down the road its just as easy to reach the exact opposite conclusion when everything is so hopeless and nihilistic. you are extrapolating way too much here. less unsupervised time, location tracking from parents, unregulated dopamine from chatgroups and algorithms in public social media, and the risk of fentany and other poisons in drugs, are much better contributors to extrapolate from

crtified 2y ago

I imagine that, for the young people of the world, the Covid years really ripped away the illusion that the adults of the world are in competent control. To a degree that modern generations (from otherwise relatively stable, wealthy countries) have never experienced. While there are other major factors clearly contributing to the generational angst, I think this was the catalyst. I wonder how the economics stack up, because intoxicants aren't free. If the researchers are saying there's X less drug use, then presumably that either implies (a) teenagers are now spending X more on other areas instead (and what are they?), or (b) teenagers now have X less money.

HPsquared 2y ago
See also: anyone who lived through the decline and fall of the USSR.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  Presumably you’re referring to disillusioning a generation, right? I wonder if the masses had smartphones in 1992 if they would have withdrew to the internet rather than vodka. Genuine question - yours is an interesting connection because the circumstances of disillusionment are so different.
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    Online services have displaced at least: - the TV - the radio - board games - card games - video games - theaters - phones and faxes - the mail Perhaps the above where the equivalent of vodka to some of you, but I wouldn't look at someone with their smartphone and think "wow, they're getting wasted !"
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      It replaced those things but that list doesn’t include the major time sinks, besides TV: social media, porn, doomscrolling. We already made fun of TV zombies, and at the worst it absolutely can remind me of a drunk or unstable person.
      - makeitdouble 2y ago
        I understand how much people are emotionally reactive to these part of the net, and the cultural hatred some can have for "unproductive" time (does it match what you call "time sinks"?) I still don't think they stand on the same foot as vodka.
        titanomachy 2y ago

_qbxi 2y ago

First-time home owners have increased in age[0], the middle class is shrinking[1], education costs have vastly outpaced inflation[2] as have medical costs[3]. Perhaps the generalized fear is not so much about "coddling", but concrete realities. I do not envy them. [0] https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-older-homeowners-2023 https://www.axios.com/2023/11/20/american-housing-market-old... [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-american-middle-class-has-changed-in-the-past-five-decades/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/04/20/how-the-a... [2] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/see-20-years-of-tuition-growth-at-national-universities https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-co... [3] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/how-does-medical-inflation-compare-to-inflation-in-the-rest-of-the-economy/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/how-does-medical-i...

mmooss 2y ago
Also the insane political risks and social instability, climate change, heightened risks of war and econmomic calamity, housing cost increase.
- MarcelOlsz 2y ago
  All I want in life is a good union for software. Role finished this week, who needs me next week? Off I go.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    How would a union help you move between roles? Or are you saying the opposite.
    - toast0 2y ago
      Most professional sports players are unionized and they move around all the time. :P I hope we get a union with a draft and such.

plagiarist 2y ago

Your last point was my knee-jerk reaction, "where are they going to do drugs? There are fewer and fewer places available to spend time without paying a fee." I'd like to know if that's true or just a mistaken impression on my part.

jajko 2y ago

> they won't be buying homes, they won't be getting high paying jobs, and that the system is not going to work in their favor I dont have a clue what your upbringing looked like, but even up to around age of 25, I never ever expected nor was told to expect any of that. The success despite all that is much sweeter. Maybe thats some US thing, being raised in eastern Europe you were born to shit, you were considered insignificant shit and that was about it. Thats what being occupied for 4 decades by russians causes to society, on top of other bad stuff they are so natural with. Maybe stop telling kids how they are all special and great and all will be astronauts and let them figure it all out by themselves? Teenagers being frustrated that they wont be owning some posh expensive house, thats pretty fucked up upbringing and life goals to be polite, thats not success in life in any meaningful way. I recommend checking biggest regrets of dying people, focus on careers and money hoarding are consistently at the top.

yks 2y ago
It didn't even cross my mind until the very late teens that it might be possible for me to own a flat one day, the sums involved sounded not much different than a "gazillion dollars", but that particular future outlook definitely had zero effect on my behavior.
acuozzo 2y ago
> Teenagers being frustrated that they wont be owning some posh expensive house Posh expensive house? Nowhere was that mentioned. The post-WWII 20th century American social contract was: "You will have the ability to get married, live in a modest home of your own, own a car, raise 2-3 young children, and go on a modest annual vacation even if you work in a factory".
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > The post-WWII 20th century American social contract was: "You will have the ability to get married, live in a modest home of your own, own a car, raise 2-3 young children, and go on a modest annual vacation even if you work in a factory" Few under 50 actually want a suburban home in a no-name town with a single domestic holiday a year and a job requiring physical labor (and hard limits on clocking in and out) that feeds your family with industrial calories. If you do, you can get that with practically zero training in a mid-tier hospitality job (or working as an e.g. bank teller) with an hour commute each way. Small-town suburban homes are cheap.

legitster 2y ago

I have had the opposite observation. Millenials and older Gen Z have extremely pessimistic takes on the future. Our childhoods were some of the most materially comfortable in human history, and everything in comparison is downhill from there. But high schoolers I know today seem more even keeled about things. They are graduating into a world where fast food jobs start at $17, no one needs to go to college if they don't want to, and they are accustomed to a world where everything is temporary and digital. I think the strongest evidence of this is the sharp decline in military recruitment.

HPsquared 2y ago
Millennials had high hopes and were disappointed; Gen Z didn't have high hopes.
- corimaith 2y ago
  Exactly. In 2014 I really thought we'd have flying cars, exploring space and world peace by 2024. Instead everything looks the same, regressed even in some areas and all-around alot more cynical
bitwalker 2y ago
You might not need to go to college, but you're going into significant debt if you do, so now one has to decide which disadvantage they want to start their career with: no degree, or crippling debt. A fast food job might be $17/hr, but the cost of gas is >2x what it was when that same job paid $8/hr, not to mention other basic costs like groceries, rent, and buckle up if you have to go to the doctor. Pay has simply not kept up with the cost of living for most Americans. Why would anyone be happy that everything is ephemeral? That implies a lack of stability, more anxiety about the future, less confidence that you can weather bad times. Humans are tactile creatures, everything being digital leads to a counter-intuitive sense of isolation - more connected, but less personal. There are positives too, but as an older Millennial, it has been interesting to be along for the ride as the potential of the internet and social media went from a superpower, to kryptonite. Who knows where things will be in 5-10 years, but it's hard not to see how some of our greatest tools are being turned against us in the search for more profit. Millennials are, if anything, brutally realistic - a trait required to navigate the last 16 years. We were forced to watch as the last bit of life in the idea of a strong middle class was snuffed out, and had to enter the workforce right as the GFC hit. Our parents were the last generation where one could reasonably expect to live a life that truly lived up to the ideal of the American Dream - that one could get educated, get a job, buy a decent house and raise a family, without it being especially noteworthy to do so. For many Millennials, if not every generation following, it is essentially nothing more than a dream at this point. Corporate greed, and a government fully captured by it, has all but killed the middle class, and I fully expect that the advent of AI - rather than being a boon for the middle class - will drive a nail in its coffin. Those with the most to gain are already on top, and I've already heard way more people here talk about what they'll be able to do without needing to hire anyone, than I have about how the people left jobless will benefit. It is readily apparent that nobody with any power is going to do anything about it before a significant amount of suffering is felt - maybe not even then. All you have to do is listen to how people talk about it, as if everyone will magically figure out something else to do when every sector starts losing jobs simultaneously. Our society has a greater chance of eating itself alive first. I consider myself lucky amongst most Millennials - I entered the workforce before the GFC, then joined the military shortly after it (not due to the GFC, but the timing worked out). I was able to get far enough along in my career in those first years though that I never had to struggle with finding a job like many did. I was able to get a house in my 30s thanks to the GI bill. Very few of those I grew up with are in the same boat, many are living much the same as they were 15 years ago - unable to save enough to buy a house, facing reduced job prospects in the future. What reason do they have to be anything _but_ pessimistic? For me personally, I think we've simply lost the battle against greed, and there is a tipping point after which reigning it back in is impossible without burning it all down. That's something nobody should want, least of all the rich, but it's played out many times in history, and we keep falling into the same trap, just different ways. I think this time it probably was Citizens United where we lost our grip, that decision made it inevitable that corporate interests would be the driving force of government, not the needs of its people. Who can say for sure what will happen, but we're all along for the ride regardless.

LorenzoGood 2y ago

As a person in that age bracket, I don't feel like my peers and I are lacking in opportunities to participate in drug & alcohol use. As to why I choose to abstain, I honestly am just not interested in drinking or doing drugs. I don't see any benefit to it socially, since I have more fun with my friends doing things while they are sober, and I don't want to be one of those adults that can't socialize without it. Also, the consequences for getting caught are high.

sundvor 2y ago
I'm very pleased to see this sentiment, as a father of a 14 year old boy. 4 years ago I decided to quit alcohol altogether (from a moderate by Australian standards consumption), and I hope to be a positive influence on him through his formative years through open and honest conversations about the topic. (He has no desire to start drinking etc early or at all at this point.) Long term health impacts are high, as someone in my 50s I'm certainly doing better for my choice. And yes, not making stupid decisions under influence also cannot be underestimated.
captnObvious 2y ago
This is what I’m thinking. All of the kids I know from 16-22 are the most level headed group of young adults I’ve known. It is hilarious to me that this group of brilliant technologists leans so heavily towards seeing the absolute worst in every data point. Could it be that, kids are doing less drugs because they’re more informed, less bored, and less reckless than previous generations? We all aspire that our kids will do better than we have. We did our best to instill a sense of confidence and worth in them. What if it is finally starting to just, f’ing work?
- sdiupIGPWEfh 2y ago
  > This is what I’m thinking. All of the kids I know from 16-22 are the most level headed group of young adults I’ve known. Taking this on a bit of a tangent, but as an elder millennial, I recall having been told (by elder relatives in their mid-30s at the time) all about how one day I'd too be an "old fogey" looking down on "teens being teens" and how such progression is just the way of things. Hell, I still hear people preaching such "wisdom" today to their youngers. Yet here I am, just past the age I'm supposedly meant to start ragging on "kids today", and all I can remark is that this same 16-22 set you speak of are remarkably respectful, polite, and considerate, perhaps more so than my own cohort at that age. I almost worry they're not rebellious enough for their own good.

jolmg 2y ago

> you typically need to be unsupervised with friends to get into drugs, something teenagers no longer have access to compared to 10-15 years ago. They don't? I'm pretty sure I saw unsupervised teens hanging out at a mall even just a few days ago.

mr_toad 2y ago
Gen X’s will probably remember being unsupervised from about the age they learned to ride a bike. I think we were the last “get home before dark” generation.
- kortilla 2y ago
  Millennials were the same for the ones born in the late 80s and early 90s.
DiggyJohnson 2y ago
Not to sound snarky, but please consider interpreting comments like these as making a statement about rate rather than an absolute binary.
- jolmg 2y ago
  Right back at you. I was also commenting on rate rather than saying that I saw one or 2 in the last 10-15 years. Not all locations are the same though, so maybe there has been a noticeable decrease where you're at. Personally, I think I've felt an increase if anything.
  - exitb 2y ago
    These changes aren't always easy to spot. I live in a city that acquired a significant Ukrainian population over the last two years. Whenever I see a group of kids that biked to an arbitrary location and play, they turn out to be young Ukrainians. They do the exact thing local kids would do 20 years ago.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

I suggest you read up on or watch a documentary on the 60s. We are fucking pampered today.

NotYourLawyer 2y ago

You’d think doomerism would lead to MORE drug use.

john_minsk 2y ago
Bad times create strong people.
- john_minsk 2y ago
  To clarify, I really think that is what's happening. People feel that their future is not a guaranteed success and make safer choices to be clear minded and focused to achieve success. Probably just my bias is talking...

noobermin 2y ago

Today on HN, Jonathan Haidt afficionados lament the decline of use of addictive, life ruining, hard drugs. Something about "formative experiences." I think it's a good thing kids don't do hard drugs today, information addiction is a thing may be but going back to hard drugs isn't a good thing.

fy20 2y ago

> the message they seem to be receiving is that they are without a future... At least when I was that age, it was usually the low income people who's greatest achievement in life would be avoiding prison, who usually turned towards smoking, alcohol, drugs and sex. See "Common People" and similar 80s/90s Britpop songs. What changed? I grew up in a lower middle class family, and for me the feeling that I could end up like that - as many people I went to school with did - was what pushed me to achieve. My parents could only just afford their bills, so I didn't get any handouts from them. Of course I don't have a Lambo, so maybe I'm considered a failure by Gen Z? Has the boundary of what is considered "successful" shifted?

anal_reactor 2y ago

> Also, you typically need to be unsupervised with friends There's a bigger cultural shift going on where people just don't like hanging out with each other anymore.

sydd 2y ago

I don't think it's be cause if anxiety, it usually increases drug use not decreases. It's much more about people ha ing less friends and socializing less

lfmunoz4 2y ago

Good point, most people I know who refuse to do drugs (psychedelics) is due to fear

nostromo 2y ago

This isn't a new phenomenon though. Gen-X felt the same way. The entire youth culture at the time was based around the vibe that the culture sucked and there wasn't a future worth having for younger people. Apathy was the youth cultural vibe of the day. Then again with older millenials it happened with the great financial crisis. There was a widespread feeling of hopelessness about the future. Outsourcing and trade liberalization (the AI-like job crusher of that period) left the future job market uncertain. I think what's new now is social media and persistent phones. If you're feeling anxiety about the future you don't escape into wild parties, you escape into your phone and videogames.