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> This picture doesn't make sense. If most don't have any money to buy products, just invent some other money and start paying one of the other people who doesn

> This picture doesn't make sense. If most don't have any money to buy products, just invent some other money and start paying one of the other people who doesn't have any money to start making the products for you. Uh, this picture doesn’t make sense. Why would anyone value this randomly invented money?

whimsicalism 2y ago
> Why would anyone value this randomly invented money? Because they can use it to pay for goods? Your notion is that almost everyone is going to be out of a job and thus have nothing. Okay, so I'm one of those people and I need this house built. But I'm not making any money because of AI or whatever. Maybe someone else needs someone to drive their aging relative around and they're a good builder. If 1. neither of those people have jobs or income because of AI 2. AI isn't provisioning services for basically free, then it makes sense for them to do an exchange of labor - even with AI (if that AI is not providing services to everyone). The original reason for having money and exchanging it still exists.
- whynotminot 2y ago
  Honestly I don’t even know how to engage with your point. Yes if we recreate society some form of money would likely emerge.
- neom 2y ago
  Didn't money basically only emerge to deal with with difficulty of “double coincidence of wants”. Money simply solved the problem of making all forms of value interchangeable and transportable across time AND circumstance? A dollar can do with with or without AI existing no?
  - whimsicalism 2y ago
    Yes, that's my point
- staticman2 2y ago
  You seem to be arguing that large unemployment rates are logically impossible, so we shouldn't worry about unemployment. The fact unemployment was 25% during the great depression would seem to suggest that at a minimum, a 25% unemployment rate is possible during a disruptive event.
  - astrange 2y ago
    The unemployment rate in a modern economy is basically whatever the central bank wants it to be. The Great Depression was caused by bad monetary policy - I don't see a reason why having AI would cause that.
    - staticman2 2y ago
      The person upthread was saying that as long as someone wants a house built and someone wants a grandma driven around unemployment can't happen. Unless nobody wanted either of those things done during the depression that's clearly not a very good mental model.
      - astrange 2y ago
        Yes, I disagree with that. The problem isn't the lack of demand, it's that the people with the demand can't get the money to express it with.
- salawat 2y ago
  Fine, you exchange labor and the builder agrees to build you a house given materials for transport for granny. Where are you getting gas/house materials from? No hand waves please. Show all work.

whimsicalism 2y ago

> Why would anyone value this randomly invented money? Because they can use it to pay for goods? Your notion is that almost everyone is going to be out of a job and thus have nothing. Okay, so I'm one of those people and I need this house built. But I'm not making any money because of AI or whatever. Maybe someone else needs someone to drive their aging relative around and they're a good builder. If 1. neither of those people have jobs or income because of AI 2. AI isn't provisioning services for basically free, then it makes sense for them to do an exchange of labor - even with AI (if that AI is not providing services to everyone). The original reason for having money and exchanging it still exists.

whynotminot 2y ago
Honestly I don’t even know how to engage with your point. Yes if we recreate society some form of money would likely emerge.
neom 2y ago
Didn't money basically only emerge to deal with with difficulty of “double coincidence of wants”. Money simply solved the problem of making all forms of value interchangeable and transportable across time AND circumstance? A dollar can do with with or without AI existing no?
- whimsicalism 2y ago
  Yes, that's my point
staticman2 2y ago
You seem to be arguing that large unemployment rates are logically impossible, so we shouldn't worry about unemployment. The fact unemployment was 25% during the great depression would seem to suggest that at a minimum, a 25% unemployment rate is possible during a disruptive event.
- astrange 2y ago
  The unemployment rate in a modern economy is basically whatever the central bank wants it to be. The Great Depression was caused by bad monetary policy - I don't see a reason why having AI would cause that.
  - staticman2 2y ago
    The person upthread was saying that as long as someone wants a house built and someone wants a grandma driven around unemployment can't happen. Unless nobody wanted either of those things done during the depression that's clearly not a very good mental model.
    - astrange 2y ago
      Yes, I disagree with that. The problem isn't the lack of demand, it's that the people with the demand can't get the money to express it with.
salawat 2y ago
Fine, you exchange labor and the builder agrees to build you a house given materials for transport for granny. Where are you getting gas/house materials from? No hand waves please. Show all work.