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Kinda insane that this is necessary in some places. I am not super comfortable with these changes of having cameras everywhere, but I am sure some grocery store

Kinda insane that this is necessary in some places. I am not super comfortable with these changes of having cameras everywhere, but I am sure some grocery store employees have to deal with a lot of “shady” customers.

Overtonwindow 2y ago
Cameras have been everywhere for quite some time. Every time you use self check out, at the grocery store or even the post office, a camera is watching you. As you walk around stores, cameras are following and recording your movements. ATM machines, traffic cameras, we are being photographed constantly.
mrweasel 2y ago
It's doesn't seem to be necessary. If they have just 200 violent incidents then that's impressively low, 0.0125% chance of you as a Walmart employee to have a violent encounter at work per year. Verbal conflicts can be unpleasant as well obviously, and the cameras can help identify those customers as well. I'm not entirely sure that the cameras well work as a deterrent though, they normal don't in other cases. A frustrated or angry customer isn't going to see the camera an change their behavior. So you still need to have support framework in place for the employees who have these encounters. The cameras are only there to be able to identify customers, but I'm not really sure what they would want to do with that information.
PKop 2y ago
If they put criminals in jail they wouldn't have to have a surveillance state like this.
- daelon 2y ago
  How does that follow?
  - PKop 2y ago
    You can't steal from retail stores when you're in prison.
    - daelon 2y ago
      What makes you think that's related to the surveillance state in any way?
      - unethical_ban 2y ago
        The person you're responding to has a history of not responding thoroughly and specifically to the claims made by others in a conversation. Alternatively, they're often flat-out wrong.
        PKop 2y ago
        Not true, I just disagree with you. The events in Germany are just the most recent example of my position (and that of the winning candidate and voters in the most recent US election) on opposing immigration and supporting remigration and deportation being the correct and moral position, as opposed to the left wing position of mass immigration and open borders in western countries being immoral.
  - lovich 2y ago
    He doesn’t like these people and would like to subject them incarceration and slavery
- pjc50 2y ago
  The US is one of the top jailers of the world. I suspect that's actually due to an extremely bad false positive rate on the police and court system; jailing a lot of non-violent people for petty incidents and failing to address more serious crimes if they're even slightly hard to investigate.
- jeffwask 2y ago
  Well, that hasn't worked thus far... The United States leads the world in total number of people incarcerated, with more than 2 million prisoners nationwide (per data released in October 2021 by World Prison Brief). This number is equivalent to roughly 25% of the world's total prison population and leads to an incarceration rate of 629 people per 100,000—the highest rate in the world. ...maybe it's time to try a different approach like maybe slowing the transfer of wealth to plutocrats and back to the lower and middle classes.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > The United States leads the world in total number of people incarcerated El Salvador passed us a couple years ago, but yea your post is right on the nose. EDIT: only in per-capita.
    - PKop 2y ago
      And their murder rate collapsed. Their policy was great.
      - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        Crazy how most countries manage a lower crime rate without behaving like savages. Not us, though! The entire point seems to be the cruelty.
        PKop 2y ago
        Perhaps the component parts are different?
      - orwin 2y ago
        I'm not sure most of the murder rate collapse had to do with incarceration. It's probably true for a small part, but from what I've heard the anti-corruption raids against the police and the end of gang wars are had more impact. Note that those are driven by the policies of the current government, I'm not saying that the Salvadoran government is bad _at all_, I'm saying that the 'imprison everything' part of the set of policies is probably the less effective one. Also Salvador uses (and probably reinforce) non-salvadoran cartels to help destroy their local gangs, and I'm not sure that this works if every country does the same.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  I am continually surprised how a forum that sees itself as super intelligent and critical also hosts people who appear to lack basic media literacy
xyst 2y ago
9/11 changed the game. Fear is a powerful motivator. Cameras on: - public roadways, highways - streets (nyc, london) - businesses - private cars - public transportation - interiors of cars - perimeter of residential homes - interiors of homes - civilian law enforcement agencies equipped with body cams - and of course the audio, video, GPS capable devices a majority of the world carries - now adding to the list is private businesses equipping employees with body cams The “selfie” and social media made us accustomed to posting personal information online as well. The surveillance state is already here and people are barely waking up to this shit.
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
  > 9/11 changed the game It did, but not as much as cheap technology did, at least when we're talking about cameras everywhere.
- eadmund 2y ago
  > 9/11 changed the game. Almost a quarter century later, I remain amazed that Americans put up with locks the government has the key to (on our luggage). As someone who grew up in the Cold War, that’s the sort of thing we would have expected from the Soviets. IIRC, it was during Nixon’s term that things started to go awry. I believe it was his administration who responded to security incidents on æroplanes with the un-American approaching of disarming passengers.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    >Almost a quarter century later, I remain amazed that Americans put up with locks the government has the key to (on our luggage). As someone who grew up in the Cold War, that’s the sort of thing we would have expected from the Soviets. Remember, Americans reacted to the drugs and crime of the 80s and 90s by throwing more government invasion of privacy and erosion of due process at that problem too.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  Fear is also highly irrational. We have a 9/11 in terms of auto deaths about every month. We watch millions die from a preventable pandemic just to keep the economy going. Neither of these things seems to provoke much desire from the state to protect americans. I don't think it's just fear, either. I remember the bloodlust and feigned victimhood that spilled out after 9/11 and I never want to live through that again. We got permission to behave in the worst way possible and so much of our culture never recovered from that. We now live under a more despotic government than we ever accused the soviets of. "patriotism" can kiss my ass
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
> but I am sure some grocery store employees have to deal with a lot of “shady” customers. I wouldn't just worry about the customers—the lady who recently died in a walk-in oven (at a walmart!) was unlikely to have been locked in by a customer.
jccalhoun 2y ago
We are being told it is necessary. We don't know that it actually is.

Overtonwindow 2y ago

Cameras have been everywhere for quite some time. Every time you use self check out, at the grocery store or even the post office, a camera is watching you. As you walk around stores, cameras are following and recording your movements. ATM machines, traffic cameras, we are being photographed constantly.

mrweasel 2y ago

It's doesn't seem to be necessary. If they have just 200 violent incidents then that's impressively low, 0.0125% chance of you as a Walmart employee to have a violent encounter at work per year. Verbal conflicts can be unpleasant as well obviously, and the cameras can help identify those customers as well. I'm not entirely sure that the cameras well work as a deterrent though, they normal don't in other cases. A frustrated or angry customer isn't going to see the camera an change their behavior. So you still need to have support framework in place for the employees who have these encounters. The cameras are only there to be able to identify customers, but I'm not really sure what they would want to do with that information.

PKop 2y ago

If they put criminals in jail they wouldn't have to have a surveillance state like this.

daelon 2y ago
How does that follow?
- PKop 2y ago
  You can't steal from retail stores when you're in prison.
  - daelon 2y ago
    What makes you think that's related to the surveillance state in any way?
    - unethical_ban 2y ago
      The person you're responding to has a history of not responding thoroughly and specifically to the claims made by others in a conversation. Alternatively, they're often flat-out wrong.
      - PKop 2y ago
        Not true, I just disagree with you. The events in Germany are just the most recent example of my position (and that of the winning candidate and voters in the most recent US election) on opposing immigration and supporting remigration and deportation being the correct and moral position, as opposed to the left wing position of mass immigration and open borders in western countries being immoral.
- lovich 2y ago
  He doesn’t like these people and would like to subject them incarceration and slavery
pjc50 2y ago
The US is one of the top jailers of the world. I suspect that's actually due to an extremely bad false positive rate on the police and court system; jailing a lot of non-violent people for petty incidents and failing to address more serious crimes if they're even slightly hard to investigate.
jeffwask 2y ago
Well, that hasn't worked thus far... The United States leads the world in total number of people incarcerated, with more than 2 million prisoners nationwide (per data released in October 2021 by World Prison Brief). This number is equivalent to roughly 25% of the world's total prison population and leads to an incarceration rate of 629 people per 100,000—the highest rate in the world. ...maybe it's time to try a different approach like maybe slowing the transfer of wealth to plutocrats and back to the lower and middle classes.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  > The United States leads the world in total number of people incarcerated El Salvador passed us a couple years ago, but yea your post is right on the nose. EDIT: only in per-capita.
  - PKop 2y ago
    And their murder rate collapsed. Their policy was great.
    - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
      Crazy how most countries manage a lower crime rate without behaving like savages. Not us, though! The entire point seems to be the cruelty.
      - PKop 2y ago
        Perhaps the component parts are different?
    - orwin 2y ago
      I'm not sure most of the murder rate collapse had to do with incarceration. It's probably true for a small part, but from what I've heard the anti-corruption raids against the police and the end of gang wars are had more impact. Note that those are driven by the policies of the current government, I'm not saying that the Salvadoran government is bad _at all_, I'm saying that the 'imprison everything' part of the set of policies is probably the less effective one. Also Salvador uses (and probably reinforce) non-salvadoran cartels to help destroy their local gangs, and I'm not sure that this works if every country does the same.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
I am continually surprised how a forum that sees itself as super intelligent and critical also hosts people who appear to lack basic media literacy

xyst 2y ago

9/11 changed the game. Fear is a powerful motivator. Cameras on: - public roadways, highways - streets (nyc, london) - businesses - private cars - public transportation - interiors of cars - perimeter of residential homes - interiors of homes - civilian law enforcement agencies equipped with body cams - and of course the audio, video, GPS capable devices a majority of the world carries - now adding to the list is private businesses equipping employees with body cams The “selfie” and social media made us accustomed to posting personal information online as well. The surveillance state is already here and people are barely waking up to this shit.

MetaWhirledPeas 2y ago
> 9/11 changed the game It did, but not as much as cheap technology did, at least when we're talking about cameras everywhere.
eadmund 2y ago
> 9/11 changed the game. Almost a quarter century later, I remain amazed that Americans put up with locks the government has the key to (on our luggage). As someone who grew up in the Cold War, that’s the sort of thing we would have expected from the Soviets. IIRC, it was during Nixon’s term that things started to go awry. I believe it was his administration who responded to security incidents on æroplanes with the un-American approaching of disarming passengers.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >Almost a quarter century later, I remain amazed that Americans put up with locks the government has the key to (on our luggage). As someone who grew up in the Cold War, that’s the sort of thing we would have expected from the Soviets. Remember, Americans reacted to the drugs and crime of the 80s and 90s by throwing more government invasion of privacy and erosion of due process at that problem too.
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
Fear is also highly irrational. We have a 9/11 in terms of auto deaths about every month. We watch millions die from a preventable pandemic just to keep the economy going. Neither of these things seems to provoke much desire from the state to protect americans. I don't think it's just fear, either. I remember the bloodlust and feigned victimhood that spilled out after 9/11 and I never want to live through that again. We got permission to behave in the worst way possible and so much of our culture never recovered from that. We now live under a more despotic government than we ever accused the soviets of. "patriotism" can kiss my ass

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

> but I am sure some grocery store employees have to deal with a lot of “shady” customers. I wouldn't just worry about the customers—the lady who recently died in a walk-in oven (at a walmart!) was unlikely to have been locked in by a customer.

jccalhoun 2y ago

We are being told it is necessary. We don't know that it actually is.