10 ms·

A Knife Forged in Fire

113 points by hentrep 2y ago

lqet 2y ago
That is some fine writing.
- type_enthusiast 2y ago
  I guess this is subjective. But to me, there's a distracting amount of purple prose. Prose has a function, which is to tap into metaphor in order to help words describe a sensory experience that's otherwise difficult for words to capture. The article does have that kind of prose. But it also has plenty of prose for prose's sake. Prose for prose's sake – especially in journalism – is self-serving. It obfuscates the point, for the sake of prose (and ultimately, for the author's own satisfaction with himself). Edit: that being said, I liked the article overall and I think the author did great at choosing an interesting subject and pretty well at writing about it. I certainly couldn't do better.
  - type_enthusiast 2y ago
    I'm going to provide some examples of what I'm criticizing here – it will likely double my downvotes, but I want to be specific as long as I'm dissenting. This is just honest and well-meaning criticism, and I'd appreciate similar criticism about my own writing. I originally replied to a comment that said simply "that is some fine writing" and I don't necessarily agree. There majority of it is well-done, but to me, the early prose made it difficult to read further. > some of the things in this sprawling realm of clutter might have come from another galaxy, like the ballistic cartridge for the table saw. If you accidentally touch the blade, it senses electrical conductivity and retracts. It’s gone so fast that it can’t cut you. It’s all part of the magic of this place of transformations. This is just a SawStop, but the author describes it as evidence of the otherworldliness of the subject. Why? There's a bill to make this mandatory in table saws. It's not otherworldly. > The room lit up to an intensity such that Sam was cast as a silhouetted troupe of antic spiders dancing on the walls and floor and ceiling, sparks flying around him like a cracked nest of hornets and in his hands a burning blue hole at the center of things. The author is describing aspects of welding with mixed arthropod metaphors. To me, it comes off as pretentious more than descriptive. On the other hand, I like how this paragraph starts out: > Sam is afraid of some of his machines in the way that the lion tamer is afraid of his cats. You are confident. You know your skills. You have been doing this a long time. But you know that wild animals are always wild animals, and a false gesture, perhaps an unexpected noise, could set in motion events that could not be stopped. This metaphor is effective to me and is descriptive in the way the author intends. Maybe gets unnecessary towards the end. But right afterwards: > Sam is harnessing powers that few of us ever encounter in our lives. He’s directing them in order to reach down inside of this deck of tarot cards and transform the very atomic nature of its being. He’s doing what sorcerers do: magic. What? This isn't even referring to a particular skill or act. Just the use of shop machines. I don't doubt that Sam is exceptionally skilled, but using "magic" to "transform the very atomic nature" of the metal – especially when we're not talking about a particular act which sets him apart – is a strain for my imagination. In my opinion, in a journalistic writing, this kind of fluff distracts from the subject and makes it difficult to read and/or take seriously. That's just my opinion – but I was replying to an opinion that it's "fine writing." If there's room for one, there's room for the other.
    - Foreignborn 2y ago
      Great critique, thanks for sharing. These are good examples of supporting and detracting from the subject of the writing.
    - Animats 2y ago
      > I guess this is subjective. But to me, there's a distracting amount of purple prose. Yes, there is. Most of what he's describing is ordinary metalworking. He gets rather worked up about a belt sander. Which is strange, because the author has written several good books about survival and air crashes and has spoken at Los Alamos.[1] He can't be that naive about basic industrial technology. Or maybe he can be. It's possible, in America today, to grow up without ever using a tool more complex than a screwdriver. This is a problem. [1] http://www.laurencegonzales.com/bio.html http://www.laurencegonzales.com/bio.html
    - Kon-Peki 2y ago
      If I'm reading it correctly, the knifemaker is the brother of the author's son-in-law. So this is kind of a family thing taking place in public; one family member creates a work of art that is excessive for its intended use, and the other family member responds with a work of art that is excessive for its intended use. In both cases, the person is doing it because they can, not because they should. I'm not bothered at all; if this was supposed to be a news story it may be a different case.
  - sevensor 2y ago
    Right there with you, and I’m surprised I had to read this far down the thread to find somebody pointing it out. My high school English teacher, who was of the old school, would have written in the margin, “elves of fire? Give me a break!”
gopalv 2y ago
I read this with an echo of the Douglas Adams passage about the Sandwich Maker in Mostly Harmless. > many was the evening when the Sandwich Maker and the Tool Maker could be seen silhouetted against the light of the setting sun and the Tool Maker's forge making slow sweeping movements through the air, trying one knife after another, comparing the weight of this one with the balance of another, the suppleness of a third and the handle binding of a fourth
vzaliva 2y ago
I get the nostalgia, but it’s worth noting that modern metallurgy has far surpassed classic knife-making techniques. Industrially-made knives are stronger and hold an edge much better.
- blovescoffee 2y ago
  It really depends. A cheap knife from ikea will not. But a powdered steel knife which is itself a luxury will definitely hold its edge better than carbon steel.
  - foobarian 2y ago
    There is also a tradeoff between ductility and hardness where going too far in the hardness direction results in a knife that chips easily and is really hard to sharpen. Softer German style steels are in a sweet spot for me in that regard, even though they require more frequent sharpening.
    - jazzyjackson 2y ago
      I was disappointed to find I had chipped my expensive Global chefs knife without having tried anything out of the ordinary like bones or nuts (side note, ceramic knives are not the tool for slicing pecans!)
    - adrian_b 2y ago
      The very purpose of the powdered steel mentioned by the previous poster is to improve this tradeoff between ductility and hardness. The simplest carbon steels can be made very hard with an appropriate heat treatment, if they have high carbon content, but then, as you say, they chip too easily. The various kinds of alloyed steels that can be used instead of carbon steel attempt to improve the tradeoff between ductility and hardness, so that one may choose a heat treatment that results in greater hardness without making the blade as fragile as a blade made of carbon steel with the same hardness. The alloyed steels made using powder metallurgy are said to achieve the best tradeoff between hardness and ductility, but I have not tested this yet, because they are also the most expensive. In the past I have used softer German style steels, but I do not like having to sharpen them, so now I prefer to use only harder and sharper Japanese knives, which must be sharpened much less frequently.
perihelions 2y ago
This reminds me of that almost-philosophical discussion about the two types of consumers: the ones who carefully research, and then buy, the very nicest forks and spoons available to buy on the global spoon market, vs. those who agglomerate "whatever" in their flatware drawer, and never think about it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470 ("The Best (dcurt.is)", 298 comments)
- vl 2y ago
  I don’t even know how realistically it’s even possible to have something of one kind in a functioning family kitchen: over the years you’ll have to replace or supplement the items, and most brands don’t manufacture same kinds of plates or utensils continuously! For silverware we don’t even try - random sets from IKEA and restaurant stores combined. For plates we use Macy’s colorful plates - which they seemed to sell forever, and they changed the design slightly few years ago, so now they don’t match anymore!
  - marssaxman 2y ago
    You can often find replacements for whatever has broken via the aptly named Replacements, Ltd: https://www.replacements.com/ https://www.replacements.com/
  - equestria 2y ago
    Most homes of people who are reasonably well-off - including most people on HN - go through three distinct stages. The first stage is right after you spend an insane amount of money to buy the property. At that point, you want to validate the investment, so you spend more on making it look nice, but you're probably oblivious to many realities of homeownership. So yeah, this is when people splurge on matched kitchenware, beautiful cutting boards, "smart" kitchen appliances, sleek-looking but impractical veneer / plastic / glass furniture, etc. The second stage is when you get kids or pets, and you start losing the battle. You eventually throw in the towel, accepting that there are going to be dings on the walls and on stainless steel appliances, holes in window screens, and veneer peeling off after the fifth juice spill accident. The third stage is when the kids move out and you can actually make the space look nice. Except now, you know that there's some wisdom to old-fashioned solid wood furniture, that cutting boards are for cutting, and so on. So your home acquires more of an "old people" vibe.
oldpersonintx 2y ago
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capitainenemo 2y ago
I was curious about the "Gator Piss" treatment in the article so I searched for it on a knife forum where someone shared a label: https://www.knifedogs.com/threads/gator-piss.54340/ https://www.knifedogs.com/threads/gator-piss.54340/ "Contains: Iron TriChloride (FeCh), Iron DiChloride (FeCh), Hydrochloric Acid" Plus a long list of warnings. Apparently it's for etching damascus steel.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
last_one_in 2y ago
Great article! I'm a dev turned blacksmith, currently getting back into bladesmithing. Working on my perfect kitchen knife. Here's my first attempt (San mai, mild steel with recycled spring steel edge) : https://www.reddit.com/r/ukblade_blacksmiths/comments/1g5v6sc/grape_test/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukblade_blacksmiths/comments/1g5v6s...
- dyauspitr 2y ago
  Turned blacksmith as in you fully support yourself blacksmithing?
  - last_one_in 2y ago
    I tried being self employed for 3 years but didn't make enough money to live on. Now I'm full time employed. I don't forge that much, lots more time doing cutting, welding, grinding. I love it.
    - dyauspitr 2y ago
      Same. I tried woodworking for a year. Made 100+ sales on Etsy and made a living but it was barely paycheck to paycheck and went back to full time. It was so much work for so little money but I loved every minute of that year.
- tptacek 2y ago
  Make me a knife! (Of course I'll pay for it.)
  - last_one_in 2y ago
    Sorry, I've got a long way to go before they're sellable! I'm just setting up a forge at a friend's farm to do more forging at weekends. There are a few people who want to learn and I've got a list of techniques from Forged In Fire that I want to try out.
    - 2y ago
BanazirGalbasi 2y ago
It's a bit of a nitpick, but I hate the term "Damascus steel" used in this context. This is pattern-welded steel, which was first called Damascus by Bill Moran in 1973. It offers few (if any) benefits that a solid billet of a single high-quality steel wouldn't, and it offers none that the original Damascus was said to have. Damascus steel was originally a crucible wootz steel that came from India or Iran and was sold to Europe through Damascus. The alternating colors came from the grain structure of the steel, not from different steel types layered together. As far as I am aware, we still do not know the exact process used to create it, although we have come close, and it's likely that modern CPM (Crucible Particulate Metallurgy) steels surpass it due to more consistent measurements for the components of the alloy. I am only an amateur blacksmith, but I have spent the last 15 years dreaming and researching to prepare myself. Given that I live in an apartment, I am limited to a small mobile forge that I can wheel out to the complex's grill area where I am actually allowed to have a fire, which limits the projects I can do due to the forge size and temperature. Crucible steel is a dream one day, but for now I just nitpick and try to tell people about the original Damascus, which is (in my opinion) much more fascinating than what gets the label today.
- eric-hu 2y ago
  How did you get into amateur blacksmithing? How much did it cost you to get started? Who do you make tools for? Pardon all the questions but it’s a topic I’ve been curious about.
  - greggsy 2y ago
    You’ll probably find that there is a forge near where you live that does one- or two-day courses on blade smithing. It’s a pretty good birthday gift. Watch any episode of Forged In Fire to get a feel for what’s involved from a hobbyists perspective. The second half of each episode follows the finalists’ progress on the challenge in their own workshops - some have full-blown black smithing businesses, but others are (literally) backyard operations.
    - eric-hu 2y ago
metalman 2y ago
Laminate welding is easy. Keep everything clean, wire brush, use flux, certain types of sand, borax or store bought never push past a welding heat.....either way. Oh and even if the boss says you can use anything you find out back, he does not actualy mean anything, a horse shoe, fine, AND the coil spring for his car,not so much. Just came across that knife the other day. Made a bit of chain on the anvil I mostly fire weld for the look, as the tapers are impossible to get any other way. If you want a related subject, then fire brazing ox bells has as much lore and mystery as knives, way, way more skill required, but again uses the simplest of materials.
zxcvbnm69 2y ago
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ridgeguy 2y ago
I'm so pleased by this article! I'm a materials junkie. My wine glasses are made of ZrO2 stabilized by Y2O3. My daily work is to convert carbon-bearing gases into diamond through plasma chemistry. I've long considered making diamond knife blades, although recent literature searches have put me off a bit, given their demonstration that brittle ceramic blades like Zirconium oxide shed sharp microparticles that I doubt are good for the ingester. Nevertheless, I have made several small solid diamond blades (~15 cm long) that I've used to cut filet mignon. With load cells attached, the draw force to cut with a diamond blade is <20% of the draw force needed for an equivalent steel blade coated with titanium nitride and overcoated with a thin Teflon layer, about 5% of the draw force required by a custom Japanese knife. I have one diamond blade in my kitchen that I use as a paring knife. It's the very best tool I own. I'm gratified that our ancestors figured out how to make superlatively sharp blades knowing essentially nothing of the science underlying their work. They were very smart and attuned to the aesthetics of their work. Thanks again for the post. Materials are endlessly fascinating.
- deleted 2y ago
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- taneq 2y ago
  You can’t just casually mention making your own 15cm solid diamond knife blades, and then not link a picture! Have you checked the edge on your kitchen knife to see if anything’s flakes off it?
  - MrLeap 2y ago
    I am guessing he meant 15mm, right? 15cm is not a small knife. Infact a 15mm diamond knife is pretty massive. The longest diamond knife I'm finding with some lazy searching is about 4mm, and it's 2200$.
    - taneq 2y ago
      15mm isn't much use as a paring knife, so this sounds more to me like "guy who works in commercial research lab sometimes gets to use the equipment for fun".
0x38B 2y ago
What a beautiful article; the author weaves together the blacksmith's story with the science of the forge and red-hot metal inside in a way that put me there, as if I was watching Sam turn a deck of metal cards into a knife. The photos that accompany the text are stunning in their own right. Author Laurence Gonzales writes, "In a sense, the knife marked the birth of civilization", which reminds me of the first knives that the survivors of Verne's "The Mysterious Island" make in their desperation and ingenuity: “Ah, if we only had a knife!” cried the sailor. “Well?” asked Cyrus Harding. “Well! I would soon make a bow and arrows, and then there could be plenty of game in the larder!” “Yes, a knife, a sharp blade.” said the engineer, as if he was speaking to himself. At this moment his eyes fell upon Top, who was running about on the shore. Suddenly Harding’s face became animated. “Top, here,” said he. The dog came at his master’s call. The latter took Top’s head between his hands, and unfastening the collar which the animal wore round his neck, he broke it in two, saying,— “There are two knives, Pencroft!” Two hurrahs from the sailor was the reply. Top’s collar was made of a thin piece of tempered steel. They had only to sharpen it on a piece of sandstone, then to raise the edge on a finer stone. Now sandstone was abundant on the beach, and two hours after the stock of tools in the colony consisted of two sharp blades, which were easily fixed in solid handles. The production of these their first tools was hailed as a triumph. It was indeed a valuable result of their labor, and a very opportune one. They set out.
- fuzztester 2y ago
  Reminds me of books like Robinson Crusoe and the Swiss Army Robinson, which I read as a kid.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
    > Swiss Army Robinson It might as well have been, but I think you meant to say "Family" :-)
    - fuzztester 2y ago
      Yes, probably due to checking out SAK multi-tools recently :-) My aunt from the US had gifted me a Wenger model SAK when I was a teenager.
newman314 2y ago
I want a nakiri too and have been eyeing this one. No Damascus but the Spanish point is interesting. https://www.messermeister.com/products/oliva-elite-6-5-inch-nakiri-knife https://www.messermeister.com/products/oliva-elite-6-5-inch-...
trhway 2y ago
One can say a video version of the article - similar process of making a Damascus sword https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53_cuLhObr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53_cuLhObr8
0xbadcafebee 2y ago
Nakiri profile is such a waste of good steel. It has no point (literally) and it's only going to cut vegetables so it can be almost any steel and serve its purpose. Spending this much effort on a kitchen knife is insane. It's just a utilitarian tool, like a mop. Just get a boring stamped carbon steel knife and learn how to hone and sharpen (or just pay someone to sharpen it!), and don't leave it sitting in water. I haven't sharpened my knives in 2 years, they are all <$80 and sharper than most people's. Life doesn't have to be complicated. My kitchen knife layout (on a magnet bar on the fridge): 3x 3.75" stainless paring knife (precision by goodcook) 1x 5.25" stainless paring knife (precision by goodcook) 1x 6" victorinox 1x 7" random japanese high carbon knife 1x 8" zwilling chefs knife These were bought at grocery or department stores. They're still sharp [enough]. I use the big chef's knife mostly to cut pizza, cake, bread. The midsize I use to carve meat and veggies. The paring I use for everything from cheese and fruit to spreading peanut butter and opening packages. I always have a knife handy, they handle well, they aren't expensive, and they perform great.
- adrian_b 2y ago
  Nakiri most definitely cannot use any steel. Using a very sharp nakiri made of a very hard steel is incomparably more enjoyable than using one made of ordinary steel, due to the reduced force required for slicing, and it avoids the need for frequent sharpening. As long as it is used for its only intended function, i.e. cutting/slicing/chopping vegetables, nakiri has the optimum shape, at least for people like myself, who do not like the rocking motion required with French-style chef knives, but who prefer to slice or chop with precise rectilinear motions. For some things that might require the use of the point with European knives, like removing some defect in a vegetable, the heel of a nakiri blade is actually more convenient. Of course the nakiri shape is not versatile. If you want a multi-purpose blade, I prefer the kiritsuke shape (i.e. a trapezoidal blade, not much different from a box cutter with a longer point), because that kind of point allows a maximum precision in cuts. Using a Japanese peeling/paring knife with very thin, sharp and hard blade is much more enjoyable than using an ordinary paring knife made of stainless steel, due to much less effort for using it and more precise results (i.e. lower vegetable waste). A long time ago, I had been using knives like those described by you, but replacing them with up to 3 better knives (paring/peeling, cutting/slicing/chopping and boning) has completely changed cooking from something that was more of a chore to an enjoyable activity.
binarymax 2y ago
"Sam is harnessing powers that few of us ever encounter in our lives. He’s directing them in order to reach down inside of this deck of tarot cards and transform the very atomic nature of its being. He’s doing what sorcerers do: magic." This is how I feel when I practiced welding. It really is truly sorcery. All the fantasies and stories of olde, with wizards wielding wands that spout lightning. This is it! We can actually do it! But I'm not very good at it :)

113 points by hentrep 2y ago

lqet 2y ago

That is some fine writing.

type_enthusiast 2y ago
I guess this is subjective. But to me, there's a distracting amount of purple prose. Prose has a function, which is to tap into metaphor in order to help words describe a sensory experience that's otherwise difficult for words to capture. The article does have that kind of prose. But it also has plenty of prose for prose's sake. Prose for prose's sake – especially in journalism – is self-serving. It obfuscates the point, for the sake of prose (and ultimately, for the author's own satisfaction with himself). Edit: that being said, I liked the article overall and I think the author did great at choosing an interesting subject and pretty well at writing about it. I certainly couldn't do better.
- type_enthusiast 2y ago
  I'm going to provide some examples of what I'm criticizing here – it will likely double my downvotes, but I want to be specific as long as I'm dissenting. This is just honest and well-meaning criticism, and I'd appreciate similar criticism about my own writing. I originally replied to a comment that said simply "that is some fine writing" and I don't necessarily agree. There majority of it is well-done, but to me, the early prose made it difficult to read further. > some of the things in this sprawling realm of clutter might have come from another galaxy, like the ballistic cartridge for the table saw. If you accidentally touch the blade, it senses electrical conductivity and retracts. It’s gone so fast that it can’t cut you. It’s all part of the magic of this place of transformations. This is just a SawStop, but the author describes it as evidence of the otherworldliness of the subject. Why? There's a bill to make this mandatory in table saws. It's not otherworldly. > The room lit up to an intensity such that Sam was cast as a silhouetted troupe of antic spiders dancing on the walls and floor and ceiling, sparks flying around him like a cracked nest of hornets and in his hands a burning blue hole at the center of things. The author is describing aspects of welding with mixed arthropod metaphors. To me, it comes off as pretentious more than descriptive. On the other hand, I like how this paragraph starts out: > Sam is afraid of some of his machines in the way that the lion tamer is afraid of his cats. You are confident. You know your skills. You have been doing this a long time. But you know that wild animals are always wild animals, and a false gesture, perhaps an unexpected noise, could set in motion events that could not be stopped. This metaphor is effective to me and is descriptive in the way the author intends. Maybe gets unnecessary towards the end. But right afterwards: > Sam is harnessing powers that few of us ever encounter in our lives. He’s directing them in order to reach down inside of this deck of tarot cards and transform the very atomic nature of its being. He’s doing what sorcerers do: magic. What? This isn't even referring to a particular skill or act. Just the use of shop machines. I don't doubt that Sam is exceptionally skilled, but using "magic" to "transform the very atomic nature" of the metal – especially when we're not talking about a particular act which sets him apart – is a strain for my imagination. In my opinion, in a journalistic writing, this kind of fluff distracts from the subject and makes it difficult to read and/or take seriously. That's just my opinion – but I was replying to an opinion that it's "fine writing." If there's room for one, there's room for the other.
  - Foreignborn 2y ago
    Great critique, thanks for sharing. These are good examples of supporting and detracting from the subject of the writing.
  - Animats 2y ago
    > I guess this is subjective. But to me, there's a distracting amount of purple prose. Yes, there is. Most of what he's describing is ordinary metalworking. He gets rather worked up about a belt sander. Which is strange, because the author has written several good books about survival and air crashes and has spoken at Los Alamos.[1] He can't be that naive about basic industrial technology. Or maybe he can be. It's possible, in America today, to grow up without ever using a tool more complex than a screwdriver. This is a problem. [1] http://www.laurencegonzales.com/bio.html http://www.laurencegonzales.com/bio.html
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    If I'm reading it correctly, the knifemaker is the brother of the author's son-in-law. So this is kind of a family thing taking place in public; one family member creates a work of art that is excessive for its intended use, and the other family member responds with a work of art that is excessive for its intended use. In both cases, the person is doing it because they can, not because they should. I'm not bothered at all; if this was supposed to be a news story it may be a different case.
- sevensor 2y ago
  Right there with you, and I’m surprised I had to read this far down the thread to find somebody pointing it out. My high school English teacher, who was of the old school, would have written in the margin, “elves of fire? Give me a break!”

gopalv 2y ago

I read this with an echo of the Douglas Adams passage about the Sandwich Maker in Mostly Harmless. > many was the evening when the Sandwich Maker and the Tool Maker could be seen silhouetted against the light of the setting sun and the Tool Maker's forge making slow sweeping movements through the air, trying one knife after another, comparing the weight of this one with the balance of another, the suppleness of a third and the handle binding of a fourth

vzaliva 2y ago

I get the nostalgia, but it’s worth noting that modern metallurgy has far surpassed classic knife-making techniques. Industrially-made knives are stronger and hold an edge much better.

blovescoffee 2y ago
It really depends. A cheap knife from ikea will not. But a powdered steel knife which is itself a luxury will definitely hold its edge better than carbon steel.
- foobarian 2y ago
  There is also a tradeoff between ductility and hardness where going too far in the hardness direction results in a knife that chips easily and is really hard to sharpen. Softer German style steels are in a sweet spot for me in that regard, even though they require more frequent sharpening.
  - jazzyjackson 2y ago
    I was disappointed to find I had chipped my expensive Global chefs knife without having tried anything out of the ordinary like bones or nuts (side note, ceramic knives are not the tool for slicing pecans!)
  - adrian_b 2y ago
    The very purpose of the powdered steel mentioned by the previous poster is to improve this tradeoff between ductility and hardness. The simplest carbon steels can be made very hard with an appropriate heat treatment, if they have high carbon content, but then, as you say, they chip too easily. The various kinds of alloyed steels that can be used instead of carbon steel attempt to improve the tradeoff between ductility and hardness, so that one may choose a heat treatment that results in greater hardness without making the blade as fragile as a blade made of carbon steel with the same hardness. The alloyed steels made using powder metallurgy are said to achieve the best tradeoff between hardness and ductility, but I have not tested this yet, because they are also the most expensive. In the past I have used softer German style steels, but I do not like having to sharpen them, so now I prefer to use only harder and sharper Japanese knives, which must be sharpened much less frequently.

perihelions 2y ago

This reminds me of that almost-philosophical discussion about the two types of consumers: the ones who carefully research, and then buy, the very nicest forks and spoons available to buy on the global spoon market, vs. those who agglomerate "whatever" in their flatware drawer, and never think about it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4755470 ("The Best (dcurt.is)", 298 comments)

vl 2y ago
I don’t even know how realistically it’s even possible to have something of one kind in a functioning family kitchen: over the years you’ll have to replace or supplement the items, and most brands don’t manufacture same kinds of plates or utensils continuously! For silverware we don’t even try - random sets from IKEA and restaurant stores combined. For plates we use Macy’s colorful plates - which they seemed to sell forever, and they changed the design slightly few years ago, so now they don’t match anymore!
- marssaxman 2y ago
  You can often find replacements for whatever has broken via the aptly named Replacements, Ltd: https://www.replacements.com/ https://www.replacements.com/
- equestria 2y ago
  Most homes of people who are reasonably well-off - including most people on HN - go through three distinct stages. The first stage is right after you spend an insane amount of money to buy the property. At that point, you want to validate the investment, so you spend more on making it look nice, but you're probably oblivious to many realities of homeownership. So yeah, this is when people splurge on matched kitchenware, beautiful cutting boards, "smart" kitchen appliances, sleek-looking but impractical veneer / plastic / glass furniture, etc. The second stage is when you get kids or pets, and you start losing the battle. You eventually throw in the towel, accepting that there are going to be dings on the walls and on stainless steel appliances, holes in window screens, and veneer peeling off after the fifth juice spill accident. The third stage is when the kids move out and you can actually make the space look nice. Except now, you know that there's some wisdom to old-fashioned solid wood furniture, that cutting boards are for cutting, and so on. So your home acquires more of an "old people" vibe.

oldpersonintx 2y ago

[dead]

capitainenemo 2y ago

I was curious about the "Gator Piss" treatment in the article so I searched for it on a knife forum where someone shared a label: https://www.knifedogs.com/threads/gator-piss.54340/ https://www.knifedogs.com/threads/gator-piss.54340/ "Contains: Iron TriChloride (FeCh), Iron DiChloride (FeCh), Hydrochloric Acid" Plus a long list of warnings. Apparently it's for etching damascus steel.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

last_one_in 2y ago

Great article! I'm a dev turned blacksmith, currently getting back into bladesmithing. Working on my perfect kitchen knife. Here's my first attempt (San mai, mild steel with recycled spring steel edge) : https://www.reddit.com/r/ukblade_blacksmiths/comments/1g5v6sc/grape_test/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ukblade_blacksmiths/comments/1g5v6s...

dyauspitr 2y ago
Turned blacksmith as in you fully support yourself blacksmithing?
- last_one_in 2y ago
  I tried being self employed for 3 years but didn't make enough money to live on. Now I'm full time employed. I don't forge that much, lots more time doing cutting, welding, grinding. I love it.
  - dyauspitr 2y ago
    Same. I tried woodworking for a year. Made 100+ sales on Etsy and made a living but it was barely paycheck to paycheck and went back to full time. It was so much work for so little money but I loved every minute of that year.
tptacek 2y ago
Make me a knife! (Of course I'll pay for it.)
- last_one_in 2y ago
  Sorry, I've got a long way to go before they're sellable! I'm just setting up a forge at a friend's farm to do more forging at weekends. There are a few people who want to learn and I've got a list of techniques from Forged In Fire that I want to try out.
  - 2y ago

BanazirGalbasi 2y ago

It's a bit of a nitpick, but I hate the term "Damascus steel" used in this context. This is pattern-welded steel, which was first called Damascus by Bill Moran in 1973. It offers few (if any) benefits that a solid billet of a single high-quality steel wouldn't, and it offers none that the original Damascus was said to have. Damascus steel was originally a crucible wootz steel that came from India or Iran and was sold to Europe through Damascus. The alternating colors came from the grain structure of the steel, not from different steel types layered together. As far as I am aware, we still do not know the exact process used to create it, although we have come close, and it's likely that modern CPM (Crucible Particulate Metallurgy) steels surpass it due to more consistent measurements for the components of the alloy. I am only an amateur blacksmith, but I have spent the last 15 years dreaming and researching to prepare myself. Given that I live in an apartment, I am limited to a small mobile forge that I can wheel out to the complex's grill area where I am actually allowed to have a fire, which limits the projects I can do due to the forge size and temperature. Crucible steel is a dream one day, but for now I just nitpick and try to tell people about the original Damascus, which is (in my opinion) much more fascinating than what gets the label today.

eric-hu 2y ago
How did you get into amateur blacksmithing? How much did it cost you to get started? Who do you make tools for? Pardon all the questions but it’s a topic I’ve been curious about.
- greggsy 2y ago
  You’ll probably find that there is a forge near where you live that does one- or two-day courses on blade smithing. It’s a pretty good birthday gift. Watch any episode of Forged In Fire to get a feel for what’s involved from a hobbyists perspective. The second half of each episode follows the finalists’ progress on the challenge in their own workshops - some have full-blown black smithing businesses, but others are (literally) backyard operations.
  - eric-hu 2y ago

metalman 2y ago

Laminate welding is easy. Keep everything clean, wire brush, use flux, certain types of sand, borax or store bought never push past a welding heat.....either way. Oh and even if the boss says you can use anything you find out back, he does not actualy mean anything, a horse shoe, fine, AND the coil spring for his car,not so much. Just came across that knife the other day. Made a bit of chain on the anvil I mostly fire weld for the look, as the tapers are impossible to get any other way. If you want a related subject, then fire brazing ox bells has as much lore and mystery as knives, way, way more skill required, but again uses the simplest of materials.

zxcvbnm69 2y ago

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ridgeguy 2y ago

I'm so pleased by this article! I'm a materials junkie. My wine glasses are made of ZrO2 stabilized by Y2O3. My daily work is to convert carbon-bearing gases into diamond through plasma chemistry. I've long considered making diamond knife blades, although recent literature searches have put me off a bit, given their demonstration that brittle ceramic blades like Zirconium oxide shed sharp microparticles that I doubt are good for the ingester. Nevertheless, I have made several small solid diamond blades (~15 cm long) that I've used to cut filet mignon. With load cells attached, the draw force to cut with a diamond blade is <20% of the draw force needed for an equivalent steel blade coated with titanium nitride and overcoated with a thin Teflon layer, about 5% of the draw force required by a custom Japanese knife. I have one diamond blade in my kitchen that I use as a paring knife. It's the very best tool I own. I'm gratified that our ancestors figured out how to make superlatively sharp blades knowing essentially nothing of the science underlying their work. They were very smart and attuned to the aesthetics of their work. Thanks again for the post. Materials are endlessly fascinating.

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taneq 2y ago
You can’t just casually mention making your own 15cm solid diamond knife blades, and then not link a picture! Have you checked the edge on your kitchen knife to see if anything’s flakes off it?
- MrLeap 2y ago
  I am guessing he meant 15mm, right? 15cm is not a small knife. Infact a 15mm diamond knife is pretty massive. The longest diamond knife I'm finding with some lazy searching is about 4mm, and it's 2200$.
  - taneq 2y ago
    15mm isn't much use as a paring knife, so this sounds more to me like "guy who works in commercial research lab sometimes gets to use the equipment for fun".

0x38B 2y ago

What a beautiful article; the author weaves together the blacksmith's story with the science of the forge and red-hot metal inside in a way that put me there, as if I was watching Sam turn a deck of metal cards into a knife. The photos that accompany the text are stunning in their own right. Author Laurence Gonzales writes, "In a sense, the knife marked the birth of civilization", which reminds me of the first knives that the survivors of Verne's "The Mysterious Island" make in their desperation and ingenuity: “Ah, if we only had a knife!” cried the sailor. “Well?” asked Cyrus Harding. “Well! I would soon make a bow and arrows, and then there could be plenty of game in the larder!” “Yes, a knife, a sharp blade.” said the engineer, as if he was speaking to himself. At this moment his eyes fell upon Top, who was running about on the shore. Suddenly Harding’s face became animated. “Top, here,” said he. The dog came at his master’s call. The latter took Top’s head between his hands, and unfastening the collar which the animal wore round his neck, he broke it in two, saying,— “There are two knives, Pencroft!” Two hurrahs from the sailor was the reply. Top’s collar was made of a thin piece of tempered steel. They had only to sharpen it on a piece of sandstone, then to raise the edge on a finer stone. Now sandstone was abundant on the beach, and two hours after the stock of tools in the colony consisted of two sharp blades, which were easily fixed in solid handles. The production of these their first tools was hailed as a triumph. It was indeed a valuable result of their labor, and a very opportune one. They set out.

fuzztester 2y ago
Reminds me of books like Robinson Crusoe and the Swiss Army Robinson, which I read as a kid.
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  > Swiss Army Robinson It might as well have been, but I think you meant to say "Family" :-)
  - fuzztester 2y ago
    Yes, probably due to checking out SAK multi-tools recently :-) My aunt from the US had gifted me a Wenger model SAK when I was a teenager.

newman314 2y ago

I want a nakiri too and have been eyeing this one. No Damascus but the Spanish point is interesting. https://www.messermeister.com/products/oliva-elite-6-5-inch-nakiri-knife https://www.messermeister.com/products/oliva-elite-6-5-inch-...

trhway 2y ago

One can say a video version of the article - similar process of making a Damascus sword https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53_cuLhObr8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53_cuLhObr8

0xbadcafebee 2y ago

Nakiri profile is such a waste of good steel. It has no point (literally) and it's only going to cut vegetables so it can be almost any steel and serve its purpose. Spending this much effort on a kitchen knife is insane. It's just a utilitarian tool, like a mop. Just get a boring stamped carbon steel knife and learn how to hone and sharpen (or just pay someone to sharpen it!), and don't leave it sitting in water. I haven't sharpened my knives in 2 years, they are all <$80 and sharper than most people's. Life doesn't have to be complicated. My kitchen knife layout (on a magnet bar on the fridge): 3x 3.75" stainless paring knife (precision by goodcook) 1x 5.25" stainless paring knife (precision by goodcook) 1x 6" victorinox 1x 7" random japanese high carbon knife 1x 8" zwilling chefs knife These were bought at grocery or department stores. They're still sharp [enough]. I use the big chef's knife mostly to cut pizza, cake, bread. The midsize I use to carve meat and veggies. The paring I use for everything from cheese and fruit to spreading peanut butter and opening packages. I always have a knife handy, they handle well, they aren't expensive, and they perform great.

adrian_b 2y ago
Nakiri most definitely cannot use any steel. Using a very sharp nakiri made of a very hard steel is incomparably more enjoyable than using one made of ordinary steel, due to the reduced force required for slicing, and it avoids the need for frequent sharpening. As long as it is used for its only intended function, i.e. cutting/slicing/chopping vegetables, nakiri has the optimum shape, at least for people like myself, who do not like the rocking motion required with French-style chef knives, but who prefer to slice or chop with precise rectilinear motions. For some things that might require the use of the point with European knives, like removing some defect in a vegetable, the heel of a nakiri blade is actually more convenient. Of course the nakiri shape is not versatile. If you want a multi-purpose blade, I prefer the kiritsuke shape (i.e. a trapezoidal blade, not much different from a box cutter with a longer point), because that kind of point allows a maximum precision in cuts. Using a Japanese peeling/paring knife with very thin, sharp and hard blade is much more enjoyable than using an ordinary paring knife made of stainless steel, due to much less effort for using it and more precise results (i.e. lower vegetable waste). A long time ago, I had been using knives like those described by you, but replacing them with up to 3 better knives (paring/peeling, cutting/slicing/chopping and boning) has completely changed cooking from something that was more of a chore to an enjoyable activity.

binarymax 2y ago

"Sam is harnessing powers that few of us ever encounter in our lives. He’s directing them in order to reach down inside of this deck of tarot cards and transform the very atomic nature of its being. He’s doing what sorcerers do: magic." This is how I feel when I practiced welding. It really is truly sorcery. All the fantasies and stories of olde, with wizards wielding wands that spout lightning. This is it! We can actually do it! But I'm not very good at it :)