8 ms·

Amazon warehouse work pays almost $20/hour where I live, which is well above the federal minimum wage and more than almost every other company in the area for t

Amazon warehouse work pays almost $20/hour where I live, which is well above the federal minimum wage and more than almost every other company in the area for this type of work. This is a living wage. "should be replaced with robots" I also think it's funny we are having this discussion. When songwriters and other creators were complaining about piracy in the 2000s, the general response from the tech community was that this was the future and you didn't deserve to earn a living. My response is the same.

greesil 2y ago
Minimum wage != Livable wage I don't think it's worth considering the comparison. But sure, maybe working at a distribution center pays well enough where you're located. Likely that's not the case where these strikes are happening. It's expensive out there. Also, what you wrote gives the impression of "I've got mine already so I don't care what happens to you."
- abduhl 2y ago
  Define what a livable wage is then. Is it $25/hr? $50/hr? $100/hr?
  - mbauman 2y ago
    $20/hr fulltime is ~40k/yr or ~$3300/mo. As just one benchmark: can you find housing in your area for $1100/mo?
  - philipov 2y ago
    To start with, any definition that ends with a constant number is wrong. The living wage in an area depends on the cost of living in that area. I don't have that number on hand, but I expect it to be included in any discussion of what people should get payed. After that, we need to ask how much profit a person should be allowed to make on their labor.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      Okay everyone recognizes this is true. Please share a reasonable number for a medium COL city, ballpark.
  - Hikikomori 2y ago
    Healthcare, decent sized apartment, 5 weeks of paid vacation, free or easily affordable pre school, overtime pay, decent schools and free college, is a good start. Then some left over on top after essentials so you aren't living paycheck to paycheck.
    - aio2 2y ago
      Yea no. I understand the sentiment and agree with it, but not exactly feasible for a lot of companies, especially for the type of job they offer
      - Hikikomori 2y ago
        So you acknowledge that the job should be done but the people doing it deserve to live in squalor even though they work a full time job. Just for corporate profit and your convenience. Just so you know, all things I listed are things most people in Western Europe already have. Including employees of Amazon and McDonald's.
        aio2 2y ago
        Here's my perspective. Not exactly related, but I hope you understand how I think: If I am a small shipping company, and all I need is someone to wrap boxes and store them, and the load isn't much, then should I be paying them full time for the job? Heck, should I pay them a living wage? No. I pay them the value of the job. Obviously, we need a certain minimum wage because nobody deserves to get scammed and make 10 cents a day, but at the same time, this push for all these benefits isn't realistic. I wish it was, but it isn't. Obviously, my example is different from Amazon, but this is more a business owner perspective.
        int_19h 2y ago
        If they are working for you full time, but you aren't paying them living wage, how exactly are they supposed to make ends meet?
  - greesil 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - abduhl 2y ago
      No. Guess we're at an impasse on this topic.
      - greesil 2y ago
        I find it funny that people are trying so hard to explain something to someone who really just wants an argument.
  - kasey_junk 2y ago
    It’s not like this is an unstudied concept. Here is one calculator: https://livingwage.mit.edu/pages/methodology https://livingwage.mit.edu/pages/methodology
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Everyone deserves the opportunity to earn a livable income, but not all jobs can or should be paying a "living wage." Some jobs by their nature are part time and some people only want to work part time.
  - greesil 2y ago
    Uh sure. Then why are they striking? I honestly don't know.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
      Some large number of them have been "agitated". You can't acknowledge that propaganda exists which is capable of manipulating people into doing things they wouldn't do on their own (or that they shouldn't do), and then say that the left does not create that sort of propaganda. They're striking not for better wages, but so that some local or state politician wins an election in 2026.
      - EarlKing 2y ago
        Yeah, they're being agitated alright... by horrible working conditions, declining real wages, and the people who apologize for it and pretend they're all bots or something rather than real people with real interests that are every bit as deserving of respect as some corpo's bottom line. Anyone thinking this is a one time thing and is going to blow over hasn't been paying attention.
  - sumOne00 2y ago
    Negative. All jobs should be paying liveable wages. One off type of jobs for 'this and that' sure, but showing up every day and expectation for deliverables or being on time? Absolutely, pay a liveable wage. Too many Ferrari, BMW, new speed boat from the PPP loans greed to show that employees mean nothing. All jobs deserve liveable wages. We should be advocating for a more peaceful society.
  - bangaloredud 2y ago
    [flagged]
footcream 2y ago
[flagged]
azemetre 2y ago
$20/hr still isn't much money and you can only survive, note I'm not saying thrive here, on that amount in the poor areas in America. There are very few jobs that actually pay well in America nowadays, and the ones that do tend to be congregated in few geographical areas and require extensive schooling. The vast majority of Americans deserve more money. Also check your priors, there are many musicians that do not complain about piracy and even partake in it (see Trent Reznor being part of oink/what, or Dead Kennedys encouraging people to record music on their tapes). I know many musicians that would upload their music on private trackers, regardless of what their label wanted or said.
- webdood90 2y ago
  > The vast majority of Americans deserve more money. This is pedantic but I strongly dislike when people say anyone deserves anything. I support an equitable system that allows citizens to move up in economic class (which we don't currently have) but I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone inherently deserves anything.
  - sterlind 2y ago
    That puts you at odds with the tradition of natural rights. The Declaration of Independence says everyone deserves life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
    - ekianjo 2y ago
      Does not mean that they deserve a specific fixed income...
    - webdood90 2y ago
      I think it's an intellectually dishonest interpretation of my reply
      - sterlind 2y ago
        No, I don't think so. You specifically rejected the idea that everyone inherently deserves anything. Objectivists would agree, but I don't think Ayn Rand would have been popular with Jefferson. Perhaps you could clarify - what do you mean by "everyone", and what do you mean by "anything?" Does everyone deserve UBI? Do workers deserve disposable income? Do the homeless deserve housing? Healthcare? Food? An attorney, if arrested? Do children deserve college? High school? Primary school? Orphanages? You can't say that nobody inherently deserves anything, then say I'm intellectually dishonest when I take you at your word.
93po 2y ago
I think your standard for a living wage is way, way too low. We should be able to comfortably afford food, housing, and medical care at minimum - both without spending most of your paycheck, to be able to afford it during periods of joblessness, and with a retirement at a reasonably young age. You cannot do this at $20/hour, and the only reason this isn't the normal standard is incredible greed and capitalism.
ThunderSizzle 2y ago
A livable wage is a wage a husband can make to raise a family, including housing, food, transportation, schooling, etc. $20/hr is about $40k/yr. Using 30% towards housing, that means they can only denote $12/yr to housing, or $1k/month. At current interest rates, that translates to a $150,000 house. What can you get for $150? There's nothing in any area I've looked that was actually habitable ever since the government's COVID debacle.
- therealdrag0 2y ago
  I’m pretty sure I’ve seen people buying in the 100-200 range on r/FirstTimeHomeBuyers. Nit sure where tho.

greesil 2y ago

Minimum wage != Livable wage I don't think it's worth considering the comparison. But sure, maybe working at a distribution center pays well enough where you're located. Likely that's not the case where these strikes are happening. It's expensive out there. Also, what you wrote gives the impression of "I've got mine already so I don't care what happens to you."

abduhl 2y ago
Define what a livable wage is then. Is it $25/hr? $50/hr? $100/hr?
- mbauman 2y ago
  $20/hr fulltime is ~40k/yr or ~$3300/mo. As just one benchmark: can you find housing in your area for $1100/mo?
- philipov 2y ago
  To start with, any definition that ends with a constant number is wrong. The living wage in an area depends on the cost of living in that area. I don't have that number on hand, but I expect it to be included in any discussion of what people should get payed. After that, we need to ask how much profit a person should be allowed to make on their labor.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    Okay everyone recognizes this is true. Please share a reasonable number for a medium COL city, ballpark.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  Healthcare, decent sized apartment, 5 weeks of paid vacation, free or easily affordable pre school, overtime pay, decent schools and free college, is a good start. Then some left over on top after essentials so you aren't living paycheck to paycheck.
  - aio2 2y ago
    Yea no. I understand the sentiment and agree with it, but not exactly feasible for a lot of companies, especially for the type of job they offer
    - Hikikomori 2y ago
      So you acknowledge that the job should be done but the people doing it deserve to live in squalor even though they work a full time job. Just for corporate profit and your convenience. Just so you know, all things I listed are things most people in Western Europe already have. Including employees of Amazon and McDonald's.
      - aio2 2y ago
        Here's my perspective. Not exactly related, but I hope you understand how I think: If I am a small shipping company, and all I need is someone to wrap boxes and store them, and the load isn't much, then should I be paying them full time for the job? Heck, should I pay them a living wage? No. I pay them the value of the job. Obviously, we need a certain minimum wage because nobody deserves to get scammed and make 10 cents a day, but at the same time, this push for all these benefits isn't realistic. I wish it was, but it isn't. Obviously, my example is different from Amazon, but this is more a business owner perspective.
        int_19h 2y ago
        If they are working for you full time, but you aren't paying them living wage, how exactly are they supposed to make ends meet?
- greesil 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - abduhl 2y ago
    No. Guess we're at an impasse on this topic.
    - greesil 2y ago
      I find it funny that people are trying so hard to explain something to someone who really just wants an argument.
- kasey_junk 2y ago
  It’s not like this is an unstudied concept. Here is one calculator: https://livingwage.mit.edu/pages/methodology https://livingwage.mit.edu/pages/methodology
SoftTalker 2y ago
Everyone deserves the opportunity to earn a livable income, but not all jobs can or should be paying a "living wage." Some jobs by their nature are part time and some people only want to work part time.
- greesil 2y ago
  Uh sure. Then why are they striking? I honestly don't know.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 2y ago
    Some large number of them have been "agitated". You can't acknowledge that propaganda exists which is capable of manipulating people into doing things they wouldn't do on their own (or that they shouldn't do), and then say that the left does not create that sort of propaganda. They're striking not for better wages, but so that some local or state politician wins an election in 2026.
    - EarlKing 2y ago
      Yeah, they're being agitated alright... by horrible working conditions, declining real wages, and the people who apologize for it and pretend they're all bots or something rather than real people with real interests that are every bit as deserving of respect as some corpo's bottom line. Anyone thinking this is a one time thing and is going to blow over hasn't been paying attention.
- sumOne00 2y ago
  Negative. All jobs should be paying liveable wages. One off type of jobs for 'this and that' sure, but showing up every day and expectation for deliverables or being on time? Absolutely, pay a liveable wage. Too many Ferrari, BMW, new speed boat from the PPP loans greed to show that employees mean nothing. All jobs deserve liveable wages. We should be advocating for a more peaceful society.
- bangaloredud 2y ago
  [flagged]

footcream 2y ago

[flagged]

azemetre 2y ago

$20/hr still isn't much money and you can only survive, note I'm not saying thrive here, on that amount in the poor areas in America. There are very few jobs that actually pay well in America nowadays, and the ones that do tend to be congregated in few geographical areas and require extensive schooling. The vast majority of Americans deserve more money. Also check your priors, there are many musicians that do not complain about piracy and even partake in it (see Trent Reznor being part of oink/what, or Dead Kennedys encouraging people to record music on their tapes). I know many musicians that would upload their music on private trackers, regardless of what their label wanted or said.

webdood90 2y ago
> The vast majority of Americans deserve more money. This is pedantic but I strongly dislike when people say anyone deserves anything. I support an equitable system that allows citizens to move up in economic class (which we don't currently have) but I don't subscribe to the idea that everyone inherently deserves anything.
- sterlind 2y ago
  That puts you at odds with the tradition of natural rights. The Declaration of Independence says everyone deserves life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    Does not mean that they deserve a specific fixed income...
  - webdood90 2y ago
    I think it's an intellectually dishonest interpretation of my reply
    - sterlind 2y ago
      No, I don't think so. You specifically rejected the idea that everyone inherently deserves anything. Objectivists would agree, but I don't think Ayn Rand would have been popular with Jefferson. Perhaps you could clarify - what do you mean by "everyone", and what do you mean by "anything?" Does everyone deserve UBI? Do workers deserve disposable income? Do the homeless deserve housing? Healthcare? Food? An attorney, if arrested? Do children deserve college? High school? Primary school? Orphanages? You can't say that nobody inherently deserves anything, then say I'm intellectually dishonest when I take you at your word.

93po 2y ago

I think your standard for a living wage is way, way too low. We should be able to comfortably afford food, housing, and medical care at minimum - both without spending most of your paycheck, to be able to afford it during periods of joblessness, and with a retirement at a reasonably young age. You cannot do this at $20/hour, and the only reason this isn't the normal standard is incredible greed and capitalism.

ThunderSizzle 2y ago

A livable wage is a wage a husband can make to raise a family, including housing, food, transportation, schooling, etc. $20/hr is about $40k/yr. Using 30% towards housing, that means they can only denote $12/yr to housing, or $1k/month. At current interest rates, that translates to a $150,000 house. What can you get for $150? There's nothing in any area I've looked that was actually habitable ever since the government's COVID debacle.

therealdrag0 2y ago
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen people buying in the 100-200 range on r/FirstTimeHomeBuyers. Nit sure where tho.