4 ms·

> It's too expensive to become a doctor. This can be solved easily by not requiring a bachelor's degree before getting into medical school. It is wasteful, esp

> It's too expensive to become a doctor. This can be solved easily by not requiring a bachelor's degree before getting into medical school. It is wasteful, especially when the bachelor's degree can be in any field such as music or computer science.

jmyeet 2y ago
So that's only partly true. If you're going to go to medical school, you technically have to do a pre-med program with required courses like Organic Chemistry. Now some of these are relevant to medical school but some (like OChem) are viewed as a weed-out [1]. Could you just do a straight medicine degree out of high school? Yes. How much shorter would it be? You can look at other countries for this. The US system is getting worse too because there's an increasing demand for gap years to make your applications competitive. That means a gap between undergrad and medical school where you're padding your resume. That might be doing a Masters or it might be practical experience. That's potentially more debt and more interest on your debt. The residency application process is a nightmare. For competitive specialties you might need another gap year after medical school to do "research", That position can be low-paid too so, again, more debt. And you'll be even older by the time you're a doctor. If you fail to match the first time you try, you're in a bad place. You're going to be less desirable as a candidate the next year if you try and match again. [1]: https://forums.medicalschoolhq.net/t/why-organic-chemistry-is-the-weed-out-course-for-medical-school/15121 https://forums.medicalschoolhq.net/t/why-organic-chemistry-i...
- breadwinner 2y ago
  In the UK it takes only 7 years to become a doctor. Students can enter medical school directly after high school. You do undergraduate medical degree (MBBS), followed by 2 years of Foundation program (paid clinical internship).
nradov 2y ago
A few schools are now offering combined Baccalaureate-MD programs which cut up to two years from that education. That's a relatively simple change which can significantly reduce the cost of becoming a doctor so we should encourage more schools to do the same. https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission-requirements/medical-schools-offering-combined-baccalaureate-md-programs-state-and-program-length-2023-2024 https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission...
- jmyeet 2y ago
  This is a complicated issue. First, licensing for USMLE requires passing 3 exams, Steps 1 through 3. Step 1 and 2 happen in medical school Step 3 in your intern year. Step 1 went pass/fail a few years ago. The idea is to not give too much weight in residency applications to scoring well. But all that's happen is that program presitage is now a more important signal. Second, most of the cost of an education comes from medical school, not undergrad. Medical school can easily run $60-70k/year. So you'd save time on a 6 year program but not necessarily much money. Third, how prestigious is that medical school? This really matters for residency. For a medical school education to work as a doctor in the US you really have 3 options: 1. An MD program; 2. A DO program. 3. An international (typically Carribean) program. They are ranked from most to least prestigious, so much so that even though international students who participate in the match process still have a relatively high overall match rate, they almost never match into highly-competitive specialties. The point is you can save money but you might be limiting yourself to being an internal medicine or family doctor. The military is another option but that's a whole other topic with various advantages and disadvantages.

jmyeet 2y ago

So that's only partly true. If you're going to go to medical school, you technically have to do a pre-med program with required courses like Organic Chemistry. Now some of these are relevant to medical school but some (like OChem) are viewed as a weed-out [1]. Could you just do a straight medicine degree out of high school? Yes. How much shorter would it be? You can look at other countries for this. The US system is getting worse too because there's an increasing demand for gap years to make your applications competitive. That means a gap between undergrad and medical school where you're padding your resume. That might be doing a Masters or it might be practical experience. That's potentially more debt and more interest on your debt. The residency application process is a nightmare. For competitive specialties you might need another gap year after medical school to do "research", That position can be low-paid too so, again, more debt. And you'll be even older by the time you're a doctor. If you fail to match the first time you try, you're in a bad place. You're going to be less desirable as a candidate the next year if you try and match again. [1]: https://forums.medicalschoolhq.net/t/why-organic-chemistry-is-the-weed-out-course-for-medical-school/15121 https://forums.medicalschoolhq.net/t/why-organic-chemistry-i...

breadwinner 2y ago
In the UK it takes only 7 years to become a doctor. Students can enter medical school directly after high school. You do undergraduate medical degree (MBBS), followed by 2 years of Foundation program (paid clinical internship).

nradov 2y ago

A few schools are now offering combined Baccalaureate-MD programs which cut up to two years from that education. That's a relatively simple change which can significantly reduce the cost of becoming a doctor so we should encourage more schools to do the same. https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission-requirements/medical-schools-offering-combined-baccalaureate-md-programs-state-and-program-length-2023-2024 https://students-residents.aamc.org/medical-school-admission...

jmyeet 2y ago
This is a complicated issue. First, licensing for USMLE requires passing 3 exams, Steps 1 through 3. Step 1 and 2 happen in medical school Step 3 in your intern year. Step 1 went pass/fail a few years ago. The idea is to not give too much weight in residency applications to scoring well. But all that's happen is that program presitage is now a more important signal. Second, most of the cost of an education comes from medical school, not undergrad. Medical school can easily run $60-70k/year. So you'd save time on a 6 year program but not necessarily much money. Third, how prestigious is that medical school? This really matters for residency. For a medical school education to work as a doctor in the US you really have 3 options: 1. An MD program; 2. A DO program. 3. An international (typically Carribean) program. They are ranked from most to least prestigious, so much so that even though international students who participate in the match process still have a relatively high overall match rate, they almost never match into highly-competitive specialties. The point is you can save money but you might be limiting yourself to being an internal medicine or family doctor. The military is another option but that's a whole other topic with various advantages and disadvantages.