4 ms·

Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.

by db48x 2y ago

vacuity 2y ago
This isn't schoolchildren all being bystanders or victims to a peer bully. There is a much larger asymmetry in time, money, and credibilty here.
- db48x 2y ago
  That’s the whole reason that small claims court exists.
  - vacuity 2y ago
    Wish I got a manual on small claims courts when I became an adult. Or sooner. And, like, the resources to exercise it without taking up more of my time or anything. It's a strange imbalance for something that is entirely the company's fault. Of course there are bound to be legitimate issues on either side, but for something blatant like this, I would that the burden wouldn't be on me.
    - nradov 2y ago
      Do you expect others to do every little thing for you? You don't need a manual. The filing forms are right there on your county court website. Learning how to deal with this stuff on your own is part of becoming an adult in the real world. Sometimes you have to expend a little time and effort.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    Yeah take days off work to get $300. Totally worth it! I can't understand why everybody doesn't do it.
    - db48x 2y ago
      Small claims court never takes days. The whole point of small claims court is that time and money and credibility are not an advantage, since the whole trial takes no more than a few minutes and consists of little more than both sides presenting and briefly explaining the paperwork that they brought with them. And $300 is a lot more than minimum wage. It’s actually higher than the _average_ hourly wage in the US (I would have preferred to compare it with a median, but that might take more searching), if you assume that it takes you a whole day. You could win that case with very little evidence. Merely the written contract, a photo of the loose antenna (or the antenna itself, if the installer left it behind instead of installing it), the statement from the installer stating that he couldn’t complete the job, and the bills for the service that you couldn’t use but that you have had to pay up to that point. That’s all paperwork that you should have held on to anyway, at least for a few years.
kurikuri 2y ago
No sympathy, are you implying that the victim here is somehow to blame, or is instigating this behavior? If so, this is analogous to victim blaming. If you decide not to waste your resources to combat someone who has wronged you, you are not ‘to blame’ for that wrong doing. It is shitty that the company can take advantage of a person like this in the first place, don’t make the situation worse by taking this sociopathic stance. There is the case of ignorance, where a person might not know about small claims court, let alone how it works and what it does. Then there is the case of an increasing number of forced arbitration clauses. Then there is the fact that companies wishing to not get swept up in a wave of small claims will reach out and try to fix the problem if they do actually have a case they think they might lose, further preventing more people from talking about it. And small claims court may ‘only take minutes to resolve,’ but that small length of time would only happen once you are actually seen in court. Before that, you’d need to - file with a clerk (meaning, spend time learning what you need to file, where you need to file it, etc.), - serve the defendant (which costs money and time), - arrive at the court in the morning for roll call, - wait a few hours until you and the defendant are actually called (if they showed up…, which if not expect to come back after serving them again). This is not a ‘trivial’ task, and all the while the company that scammed you already had your money. As a large company, you can arbitrage the profit of this shady behavior against the risk of someone actually going through all of the steps.
- db48x 2y ago
  It is perfectly legitimate to be exasperated at victims who complain about being taken advantage of, but never even try to do anything about it. Besides, it’s easier than you pretend. The form you have to fill out is literally two pages long. The costs and filing fees are minimal, and they’ll even waive them if you ask. You can email your local sheriff and have them take care of service, or do it by mail. Yes, you will likely spend more time waiting in the lobby (more likely the hallway in the basement, but whatever) on the day of your hearing than you will spend in front of the judge, but what more could you possibly want? The process has been made literally as simple as is currently feasible.

Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.

by db48x 2y ago

Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.

This isn't schoolchildren all being bystanders or victims to a peer bully. There is a much larger asymmetry in time, money, and credibilty here.

db48x 2y ago
That’s the whole reason that small claims court exists.
- vacuity 2y ago
  Wish I got a manual on small claims courts when I became an adult. Or sooner. And, like, the resources to exercise it without taking up more of my time or anything. It's a strange imbalance for something that is entirely the company's fault. Of course there are bound to be legitimate issues on either side, but for something blatant like this, I would that the burden wouldn't be on me.
  - nradov 2y ago
    Do you expect others to do every little thing for you? You don't need a manual. The filing forms are right there on your county court website. Learning how to deal with this stuff on your own is part of becoming an adult in the real world. Sometimes you have to expend a little time and effort.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  Yeah take days off work to get $300. Totally worth it! I can't understand why everybody doesn't do it.
  - db48x 2y ago
    Small claims court never takes days. The whole point of small claims court is that time and money and credibility are not an advantage, since the whole trial takes no more than a few minutes and consists of little more than both sides presenting and briefly explaining the paperwork that they brought with them. And $300 is a lot more than minimum wage. It’s actually higher than the _average_ hourly wage in the US (I would have preferred to compare it with a median, but that might take more searching), if you assume that it takes you a whole day. You could win that case with very little evidence. Merely the written contract, a photo of the loose antenna (or the antenna itself, if the installer left it behind instead of installing it), the statement from the installer stating that he couldn’t complete the job, and the bills for the service that you couldn’t use but that you have had to pay up to that point. That’s all paperwork that you should have held on to anyway, at least for a few years.

kurikuri 2y ago

No sympathy, are you implying that the victim here is somehow to blame, or is instigating this behavior? If so, this is analogous to victim blaming. If you decide not to waste your resources to combat someone who has wronged you, you are not ‘to blame’ for that wrong doing. It is shitty that the company can take advantage of a person like this in the first place, don’t make the situation worse by taking this sociopathic stance. There is the case of ignorance, where a person might not know about small claims court, let alone how it works and what it does. Then there is the case of an increasing number of forced arbitration clauses. Then there is the fact that companies wishing to not get swept up in a wave of small claims will reach out and try to fix the problem if they do actually have a case they think they might lose, further preventing more people from talking about it. And small claims court may ‘only take minutes to resolve,’ but that small length of time would only happen once you are actually seen in court. Before that, you’d need to - file with a clerk (meaning, spend time learning what you need to file, where you need to file it, etc.), - serve the defendant (which costs money and time), - arrive at the court in the morning for roll call, - wait a few hours until you and the defendant are actually called (if they showed up…, which if not expect to come back after serving them again). This is not a ‘trivial’ task, and all the while the company that scammed you already had your money. As a large company, you can arbitrage the profit of this shady behavior against the risk of someone actually going through all of the steps.

db48x 2y ago
It is perfectly legitimate to be exasperated at victims who complain about being taken advantage of, but never even try to do anything about it. Besides, it’s easier than you pretend. The form you have to fill out is literally two pages long. The costs and filing fees are minimal, and they’ll even waive them if you ask. You can email your local sheriff and have them take care of service, or do it by mail. Yes, you will likely spend more time waiting in the lobby (more likely the hallway in the basement, but whatever) on the day of your hearing than you will spend in front of the judge, but what more could you possibly want? The process has been made literally as simple as is currently feasible.