6 ms·

Ignoring the tone of your comment, I agree with you in a way, but I also wonder if that has something to do with where I live. The US suburbs don't really have

by 0xEF 2y ago

Ignoring the tone of your comment, I agree with you in a way, but I also wonder if that has something to do with where I live. The US suburbs don't really have what I would call "local stores," just big, well known corporate stores. So, when making the choice of where to buy Product X, my options are giving my money to Best Buy, Walmart, Ikea, Kroger, etc...or Jeff Bezos, whose online empire offers slightly more convenience than the others because I don't have to drive if I can wait a day or two. There's no family-owned businesses to hurt here because they were all chased out by the Big Box stores years ago. Heck, I remember when they filled in the pond I learned to fish in as a kid just to put up that Walmart. Sure, Amazon can be held up as contributing toward the death of the small business, but those wheels were spinning long before Bezos was selling books out of a garage or whatever mythology we want to accept. I don't like Amazon. I don't like the idea of one entity having that much influence and control over my consumer habits. I don't like that the business model is just drop-shipping in a trenchcoat of digital services. I don't like that their workers are basically treated as third-world labor. But I do have to admit that they have won the game and as a result, I have to use them. I wish it were otherwise, but we're past the point of no return, on that. We all gave them permission for this to happen by patronizing it for years, even down to the mistreated workers who keep applying for those jobs knowing full well Amazon's employment reputation. Amazon did not kill small business. Consumers did, ever suckered by savings and convenience.

simoncion 2y ago
> But I do have to admit that they have won the game and as a result, I have to use them. Try ordering direct from the manufacturer's website. A surprising-to-me number of companies have set this up, and it's what I often do if I know what I want and Newegg isn't selling it for a reasonable price (or at all).
- coryrc 2y ago
  I've done that, only to get it "fulfilled by Amazon" anyway.
  - simoncion 2y ago
    Weird. I've done it a bunch and not had any indication that Amazon was involved with either the money-handling or the delivery. It makes a ton of sense that it WOULD happen sometimes, but I've yet to see it.
- amelius 2y ago
  This is probably not the most environmentally friendly solution, though.
  - simoncion 2y ago
    You're right. The most environmentally-friendly solution is to truck, train, or ship things into stores in big cities and let people walk or take public transit to get their things. I'm not sure how you imagine that ordering direct from a manufacturer works, but I'm certain that most of them have their goods in big warehouses and use major delivery services to get those goods to you, much like they would get those goods to an ordinary store. Goods are going to be shipped, flown, and trucked around. Until we invent macro-scale teleportation, there's no reasonable way to stop doing that entirely.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Unfortunately, Amazon policies prohibit them from selling their product any cheaper on their own website than they do on Amazon. This essentially guarantees that Amazon will always be cheaper, so there's not much point in going to the manufacturer's website where you don't get prime, you don't get the same guarantees, and you pay at best the same and at worst a whole lot more. It's quite an evil genius policy on the side of Amazon.
  - amelius 2y ago
    This should be illegal.
    - bdangubic 2y ago
      what kind of a law would you put in place here to make this illegal? and who would it cover? amazon has a business, yes? and if you want to do business with amazon you have to abide but those rules. you can also just NOT do business with amazon - sell your shit at another place, done deal. too many times here on HN we see people say what you say - let's just add mooooooar laws (these would have to be FEDERAL to make any sense) and have government involved in as many things as possible... it is just wrong although in theory you can say this is unfair - but certainly should be be illegal... like saying apple charging 30% wig should be illegal :)
      - amelius 2y ago
        Are you saying that antitrust law is nonsense? The laws of our economy are not there to serve a few large companies. They are there to serve us, people, most of all. Do you think that markets will collapse if we had more fair rules for big companies?
        bdangubic 2y ago
        > Are you saying that antitrust law is nonsense? Not nonsense of course but if what Amazon is doing is breaking any of the antitrust laws we have in place there is a machinery for that already - the government can take this up if they feel like Amazon is breaking antitrust laws. The problem is - whatever "issue" someone has with something amazon is doing it inevitably ends up here on HN as "oh that should be illegal..." you start putting every little thing you don't like into some federal laws and pretty soon you are China... it is a fine line to walk on... > The laws of our economy are not there to serve a few large companies. They are there to serve us, people, most of all. In some theory maybe - not in any reality... this sounds more like the way China is organized, not United States :) I personally wish this was true... > Do you think that markets will collapse if we had more fair rules for big companies? This depends - who is making the rules?! This is always easier said than done - you think that whatever "rules" you put in place is what "everyone/majority/..." wants but of course you'd be wrong. And again - who is making the rules? The politicians who spent over 70% of their fundraising for their next election... and during those fundraisers the donors are ... well not me and you but Amazon, NRA... and they will get their way... The system is stacked against you and you can talk fantasy like "oh the economy should work for the little guy..." or reality...
juliangmp 2y ago
Thing that I hate most about amazon is how it turned into the western version of aliexpress. Completely flooded with terrible products, you know the ones (badly translated, titles that are a list of keywords, ai generated everything, clearly and badly edited product images, ...) Like I'm at a point where I order like 5-10 products a year from amazon, mostly cause I can't get them elsewhere for reasonable prices. Everything else I buy in other online stores or physically.
iLoveOncall 2y ago
> I also wonder if that has something to do with where I live I live in the center of London and out of the 200 non-household goods orders I have on Amazon this year I don't think I would have been able to find even 20% of them in local stores. Actually even when I do go in a store and find an item I need, I scan the barcode on the Amazon app and saw that it's usually a LOT cheaper on Amazon (like, 30% cheaper for the exact same tool). Add to that what I mention in my previous comment about return policies, travel time, etc. and there's absolutely no reason not to order on Amazon, even if you're in the ideal place to go to local stores.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  I live in the centre of Copenhagen, and haven't ordered anything from Amazon for a decade — on principle. I have ordered from online retailers in Denmark, and I've made 2 orders from AliExpress, and a few more from eBay. Can you give five items you can't buy in central London, but can buy from Amazon?
  - iLoveOncall 2y ago
    I have 400 orders on Amazon this year (I think that means I have more than 400 unique items since one order can be more than one items, but it's probably around 450 items total so not far off). Of those, I probably have a good portion which is household goods as I mentioned, like soap in bulk, soda cans in bulk, etc. which is cheaper than any other option (especially because I don't have a car in London). Then I have around 170 orders which are items I got for free through the Vine program (https://www.amazon.co.uk/vine/about https://www.amazon.co.uk/vine/about). And probably around 30 orders that are free books (https://www.amazon.co.uk/firstreads https://www.amazon.co.uk/firstreads). If I ignore all of those, and take only recent orders that I paid for, here are 5 items that I can't buy, or at least wouldn't know where to even begin looking for, in central London: - A luggage and suitcase scale - A monitor arm - A good shower filter for hard water (not the crap that doesn't actually filter anything which you can easily find anywhere) - A label printer - A moth repellent for wardrobes
    - 2y ago
zmgsabst 2y ago
> Amazon can be held up as contributing toward the death of the small business Amazon does more than most of those to let you buy from small producers, which also feature in their catalog. The volume SMBs ship on Amazon was in the double digit billions per year when I worked there — and is probably higher now. Now, back to my regular Amazon criticism!
themaninthedark 2y ago
Consumers killed family owned stores not because they didn't like them(though true in some cases), they killed them because things were getting expensive and they didn't want to lose their standard of living. At one point in time, Wal-mart's big thing was they sold Made in America. Then they pivoted to cheap junk, their pivot occurred as jobs moved from the US to Mexico and China. That was the point when it became unfashionable to shop at Wal-mart; as recorded by the finest news network : https://theonion.com/hostages-trapped-inside-walmart-insisting-they-never-sh-1819595014/ https://theonion.com/hostages-trapped-inside-walmart-insisti... Consumers weren't completely suckered by savings and convenience; although that was some of it, they were trying to make their ever smaller budgets stretch further.

by 0xEF 2y ago

simoncion 2y ago

> But I do have to admit that they have won the game and as a result, I have to use them. Try ordering direct from the manufacturer's website. A surprising-to-me number of companies have set this up, and it's what I often do if I know what I want and Newegg isn't selling it for a reasonable price (or at all).

coryrc 2y ago
I've done that, only to get it "fulfilled by Amazon" anyway.
- simoncion 2y ago
  Weird. I've done it a bunch and not had any indication that Amazon was involved with either the money-handling or the delivery. It makes a ton of sense that it WOULD happen sometimes, but I've yet to see it.
amelius 2y ago
This is probably not the most environmentally friendly solution, though.
- simoncion 2y ago
  You're right. The most environmentally-friendly solution is to truck, train, or ship things into stores in big cities and let people walk or take public transit to get their things. I'm not sure how you imagine that ordering direct from a manufacturer works, but I'm certain that most of them have their goods in big warehouses and use major delivery services to get those goods to you, much like they would get those goods to an ordinary store. Goods are going to be shipped, flown, and trucked around. Until we invent macro-scale teleportation, there's no reasonable way to stop doing that entirely.
freedomben 2y ago
Unfortunately, Amazon policies prohibit them from selling their product any cheaper on their own website than they do on Amazon. This essentially guarantees that Amazon will always be cheaper, so there's not much point in going to the manufacturer's website where you don't get prime, you don't get the same guarantees, and you pay at best the same and at worst a whole lot more. It's quite an evil genius policy on the side of Amazon.
- amelius 2y ago
  This should be illegal.
  - bdangubic 2y ago
    what kind of a law would you put in place here to make this illegal? and who would it cover? amazon has a business, yes? and if you want to do business with amazon you have to abide but those rules. you can also just NOT do business with amazon - sell your shit at another place, done deal. too many times here on HN we see people say what you say - let's just add mooooooar laws (these would have to be FEDERAL to make any sense) and have government involved in as many things as possible... it is just wrong although in theory you can say this is unfair - but certainly should be be illegal... like saying apple charging 30% wig should be illegal :)
    - amelius 2y ago
      Are you saying that antitrust law is nonsense? The laws of our economy are not there to serve a few large companies. They are there to serve us, people, most of all. Do you think that markets will collapse if we had more fair rules for big companies?
      - bdangubic 2y ago
        > Are you saying that antitrust law is nonsense? Not nonsense of course but if what Amazon is doing is breaking any of the antitrust laws we have in place there is a machinery for that already - the government can take this up if they feel like Amazon is breaking antitrust laws. The problem is - whatever "issue" someone has with something amazon is doing it inevitably ends up here on HN as "oh that should be illegal..." you start putting every little thing you don't like into some federal laws and pretty soon you are China... it is a fine line to walk on... > The laws of our economy are not there to serve a few large companies. They are there to serve us, people, most of all. In some theory maybe - not in any reality... this sounds more like the way China is organized, not United States :) I personally wish this was true... > Do you think that markets will collapse if we had more fair rules for big companies? This depends - who is making the rules?! This is always easier said than done - you think that whatever "rules" you put in place is what "everyone/majority/..." wants but of course you'd be wrong. And again - who is making the rules? The politicians who spent over 70% of their fundraising for their next election... and during those fundraisers the donors are ... well not me and you but Amazon, NRA... and they will get their way... The system is stacked against you and you can talk fantasy like "oh the economy should work for the little guy..." or reality...

juliangmp 2y ago

Thing that I hate most about amazon is how it turned into the western version of aliexpress. Completely flooded with terrible products, you know the ones (badly translated, titles that are a list of keywords, ai generated everything, clearly and badly edited product images, ...) Like I'm at a point where I order like 5-10 products a year from amazon, mostly cause I can't get them elsewhere for reasonable prices. Everything else I buy in other online stores or physically.

iLoveOncall 2y ago

> I also wonder if that has something to do with where I live I live in the center of London and out of the 200 non-household goods orders I have on Amazon this year I don't think I would have been able to find even 20% of them in local stores. Actually even when I do go in a store and find an item I need, I scan the barcode on the Amazon app and saw that it's usually a LOT cheaper on Amazon (like, 30% cheaper for the exact same tool). Add to that what I mention in my previous comment about return policies, travel time, etc. and there's absolutely no reason not to order on Amazon, even if you're in the ideal place to go to local stores.

Symbiote 2y ago
I live in the centre of Copenhagen, and haven't ordered anything from Amazon for a decade — on principle. I have ordered from online retailers in Denmark, and I've made 2 orders from AliExpress, and a few more from eBay. Can you give five items you can't buy in central London, but can buy from Amazon?
- iLoveOncall 2y ago
  I have 400 orders on Amazon this year (I think that means I have more than 400 unique items since one order can be more than one items, but it's probably around 450 items total so not far off). Of those, I probably have a good portion which is household goods as I mentioned, like soap in bulk, soda cans in bulk, etc. which is cheaper than any other option (especially because I don't have a car in London). Then I have around 170 orders which are items I got for free through the Vine program (https://www.amazon.co.uk/vine/about https://www.amazon.co.uk/vine/about). And probably around 30 orders that are free books (https://www.amazon.co.uk/firstreads https://www.amazon.co.uk/firstreads). If I ignore all of those, and take only recent orders that I paid for, here are 5 items that I can't buy, or at least wouldn't know where to even begin looking for, in central London: - A luggage and suitcase scale - A monitor arm - A good shower filter for hard water (not the crap that doesn't actually filter anything which you can easily find anywhere) - A label printer - A moth repellent for wardrobes
  - 2y ago

zmgsabst 2y ago

> Amazon can be held up as contributing toward the death of the small business Amazon does more than most of those to let you buy from small producers, which also feature in their catalog. The volume SMBs ship on Amazon was in the double digit billions per year when I worked there — and is probably higher now. Now, back to my regular Amazon criticism!

themaninthedark 2y ago

Consumers killed family owned stores not because they didn't like them(though true in some cases), they killed them because things were getting expensive and they didn't want to lose their standard of living. At one point in time, Wal-mart's big thing was they sold Made in America. Then they pivoted to cheap junk, their pivot occurred as jobs moved from the US to Mexico and China. That was the point when it became unfashionable to shop at Wal-mart; as recorded by the finest news network : https://theonion.com/hostages-trapped-inside-walmart-insisting-they-never-sh-1819595014/ https://theonion.com/hostages-trapped-inside-walmart-insisti... Consumers weren't completely suckered by savings and convenience; although that was some of it, they were trying to make their ever smaller budgets stretch further.