5 ms·

In France, around 1985, an old man said to me that just after WW2 he was, as a French soldier, working in Germany in some airfield or military site which was th

In France, around 1985, an old man said to me that just after WW2 he was, as a French soldier, working in Germany in some airfield or military site which was then used to host Allied soldiers of various nationalities. They had a problem with Soviet soldiers dying due to some poisonous/toxic substance they consumed. It lasted for days, maybe weeks. Nobody had a clue. Then they realized that some/many Soviet soldiers had discovered a tank containing jet fuel and secretly drank from it. Those who drank too much or were too weak just died, but other ones weren't deterred.

namanyayg 2y ago
Why were people even drinking jet fuel? Did it have any psychotropic effects?
- genocidicbunny 2y ago
  My guess: jet fuel is commonly kerosene, which if ingested (especially at somewhat palatable dilutions) will majorly fuck you up, but with effects that can somewhat mimic being drunk. That said, it's also going to fry your liver, kidneys, and pretty much anything else, but if you were already a conscript that spent 26 hours a day in a state somewhere between unconscious and drunk, a little kerosene nightcap might be just the thing. And if you ended up in the infirmary, at least they'd change the sheets between patients -- no such luxury in the barracks. Some universities in the USSR, especially ones that dealt with electronics and silicon manufacturing, would keep their solvents under strict lock and key. Mostly because the military 'cadets' tended to pretty quickly consume any solvents that didn't immediately kill them.
  - natmaka 2y ago
    Indeed! The man who told me this did not know the reason but his hypothesis was indeed that they wanted to get drunk. Thank you for the details. I heard about Russian women hiding their perfumes for men not to find (and drink) them...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    It is funny how putting on a uniform instantly makes you ... stupid. It is like a part of your brain shuts off. The social behaviour regress to like 5th grade in adult men. Like of someone tells you you tie your shoes in the wrong way you become a child mentally or something.
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      It's probably not the clothing, but rather some aspect of the circumstance that coincides with the uniform (such as, loss of freedom.)
      - rightbyte 2y ago
        Oh ye ofc. There are many normal professions with uniforms. But when you are in it, putting on the uniform is the magic transition between the real you and vice corpral Rightbyte. Loss of freedom is certainly the main factor.
    - genocidicbunny 2y ago
      Being a Soviet/Russian conscript is a terrible fucking lot in life. Being raped, beaten, denigrated was and remains extremely common. You're taken from wherever you had probably spent your whole life, thrown into a shitty uniform, shipped off like cattle to wherever it is that the motherland needs you, and used as an inanimate tool until you were either too broken and destroyed to function anymore, or you had managed to survive to the end of your term. Alcoholism was and remains rampant, and in many cases even encouraged, as to keep the system 'lubricated'. Getting shitfaced on whatever you could find that'd get you there quickly is just an extension of that.
      - pavel_lishin 2y ago
        I left the country when I was young, and as soon as I became of age, the military came around my old apartment to find me. I couldn't return to the country for a decade - there was absolutely no way I was going to take even the slightest chance of being in the Russian military. This is very much the same reason I'm not going back now. It saddens me that I may never step foot there again.
  - snozolli 2y ago
    I saw Russians depicted as drinking brake fluid in Beast of War and couldn't believe it. A few searches proved it true! Here's an excerpt from "Inside the Soviet Army in Afghanistan" by Alexander Alexiev (US Army document): You cannot imagine what they drink. They will drink shaving lotions and cologne. That's good stuff. Then they will drink toothpaste. The best one is the Bulgarian Pomorin brand. They will simply squeeze four or five tubes in a jar, dilute it with water and drink it. They also drank truck antifreeze, glue, and brake fluid. The brake fluid they used to heat up and put some nails in it for some reason. I don't know why. They will also take shoe polish and smear it on a piece of bread and leave it in the sun until the alcohol separates from the shoe polish. Then you eat the bread and get drunk.
    - int_19h 2y ago
      There's a legendary Russian recipe for drinking brake fluid. I've seen claims that this goes as far back as WW2, with Soviet soldiers using their Mosin rifles to treat German brake fluid in this manner. 1. Be someplace very cold. 2. Find a steel crowbar or something similar (metal and long). 3. Stick it in a bucket. 4. Drip brake fluid onto the exposed end such that the liquid flows slowly along the surface into the bucket. This supposedly filters out most of the chemicals as they freeze onto the cold metal surface, leaving the liquid in the bucket drinkable. I would strongly advise against actually trying this for real, though.
    - kdmtctl 2y ago
      One can't drink glue. You need to make a mixer head (drill and wire is OK) and collect the solid dissolved mass on it. The rest you can drink.
- russell_h 2y ago
  I read somewhere that some Soviet jets used huge quantities of alcohol for cooling.
  - echoangle 2y ago
    Specifically the Tu-22 is known for this.
    - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
      Many of the Russian fighters still in active service have alcohol coolant. The ground crews are reputed to partake when they want a tipple.
    - p_l 2y ago
      MiG-21 radars used high quality pure ethanol in evaporating cooling system
  - natmaka 2y ago
    Some did, however there were no Soviet jets at the time of this story.
  - genocidicbunny 2y ago
    Still do, though these days they're a little more efficient, so it's only the flight crew that needs to be cooled with that alcohol.
nicbou 2y ago
I read the same story from Anthony Beevor’s book about the battle of Berlin, although I think it was a different chemical. The Red Army seemed to have a drinking problem.
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > The Red Army seemed to have a drinking problem. s/seemed to have/has had and still has/ Life in Soviet/Russian armies is grim. Many of the recruits come from remote regions so poor that they lack fridges, washing machines and even toilets (today as well [2], hence all the looting in Ukraine [3]). Broken-down equipment - either because it was crap from the factory or because someone along the chain sold off parts and fuel on the black market -, substandard equipment, shoddy living conditions, and on top of all of that (which would turn most Western soldiers into alcoholics already) come brutal hazing rituals [1] that traumatise those who manage to survive it (there's tens of thousands of incidents a year, and as late as 2006 hundreds of deaths a year), and the meatwave battle strategy that both past and current leadership have embraced. No wonder that the Russian / Soviet / Russian army has always been associated with alcoholism, most of them self-medicate with it (or whatever other drugs they can get their hands on). And it's also no surprise given the traumatisation that many of the Russian soldiers act completely depraved on the battlefield - why not rape, torture and kill for fun, when you're probably not going to survive the war long enough to get held accountable? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina [2] https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-st... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_by_Russian_forces_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_by_Russian_forces_duri...
  - pnutjam 2y ago
    Look for a copy of Zinky Boys. It shows the conditions for Soviet soldiers during the Afghan war, I think it hasn't changed much.
  - ahartmetz 2y ago
    Don't forget shitty leadership - harsh, anti-intellectual, and expecting obedienece, not initiative.
cafard 2y ago
According to my father, a number of GIs blinded or otherwise injured themselves experimenting with antifreeze around VE day.
saalweachter 2y ago
Alcoholism in Russia, and most of the former USSR is just like, real bad. The sex ratio in Russia is something like 80 men : 100 women, and it's mostly due to alcohol.
- mock-possum 2y ago
  Do women not drink? Or are men somehow more susceptible?
  - saalweachter 2y ago
    > Do women not drink? Kinda, sorta? The global data is roughly "the more patriarchal a society is, the less women drink". > Or are men somehow more susceptible? That's also possible, but it's hard to suss out of the data, because the cultural aspects are so large. In some countries, alcohol use is like an order of magnitude higher for men than women, and in others it's roughly equal.
nradov 2y ago
Soviet air force personnel had it better. The Tupolev Tu-22 bomber used a cooling system that contained 40% pure alcohol so of course that was constantly siphoned off. https://youtu.be/bKoHMXggEHU https://youtu.be/bKoHMXggEHU

namanyayg 2y ago

Why were people even drinking jet fuel? Did it have any psychotropic effects?

genocidicbunny 2y ago
My guess: jet fuel is commonly kerosene, which if ingested (especially at somewhat palatable dilutions) will majorly fuck you up, but with effects that can somewhat mimic being drunk. That said, it's also going to fry your liver, kidneys, and pretty much anything else, but if you were already a conscript that spent 26 hours a day in a state somewhere between unconscious and drunk, a little kerosene nightcap might be just the thing. And if you ended up in the infirmary, at least they'd change the sheets between patients -- no such luxury in the barracks. Some universities in the USSR, especially ones that dealt with electronics and silicon manufacturing, would keep their solvents under strict lock and key. Mostly because the military 'cadets' tended to pretty quickly consume any solvents that didn't immediately kill them.
- natmaka 2y ago
  Indeed! The man who told me this did not know the reason but his hypothesis was indeed that they wanted to get drunk. Thank you for the details. I heard about Russian women hiding their perfumes for men not to find (and drink) them...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- rightbyte 2y ago
  It is funny how putting on a uniform instantly makes you ... stupid. It is like a part of your brain shuts off. The social behaviour regress to like 5th grade in adult men. Like of someone tells you you tie your shoes in the wrong way you become a child mentally or something.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    It's probably not the clothing, but rather some aspect of the circumstance that coincides with the uniform (such as, loss of freedom.)
    - rightbyte 2y ago
      Oh ye ofc. There are many normal professions with uniforms. But when you are in it, putting on the uniform is the magic transition between the real you and vice corpral Rightbyte. Loss of freedom is certainly the main factor.
  - genocidicbunny 2y ago
    Being a Soviet/Russian conscript is a terrible fucking lot in life. Being raped, beaten, denigrated was and remains extremely common. You're taken from wherever you had probably spent your whole life, thrown into a shitty uniform, shipped off like cattle to wherever it is that the motherland needs you, and used as an inanimate tool until you were either too broken and destroyed to function anymore, or you had managed to survive to the end of your term. Alcoholism was and remains rampant, and in many cases even encouraged, as to keep the system 'lubricated'. Getting shitfaced on whatever you could find that'd get you there quickly is just an extension of that.
    - pavel_lishin 2y ago
      I left the country when I was young, and as soon as I became of age, the military came around my old apartment to find me. I couldn't return to the country for a decade - there was absolutely no way I was going to take even the slightest chance of being in the Russian military. This is very much the same reason I'm not going back now. It saddens me that I may never step foot there again.
- snozolli 2y ago
  I saw Russians depicted as drinking brake fluid in Beast of War and couldn't believe it. A few searches proved it true! Here's an excerpt from "Inside the Soviet Army in Afghanistan" by Alexander Alexiev (US Army document): You cannot imagine what they drink. They will drink shaving lotions and cologne. That's good stuff. Then they will drink toothpaste. The best one is the Bulgarian Pomorin brand. They will simply squeeze four or five tubes in a jar, dilute it with water and drink it. They also drank truck antifreeze, glue, and brake fluid. The brake fluid they used to heat up and put some nails in it for some reason. I don't know why. They will also take shoe polish and smear it on a piece of bread and leave it in the sun until the alcohol separates from the shoe polish. Then you eat the bread and get drunk.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    There's a legendary Russian recipe for drinking brake fluid. I've seen claims that this goes as far back as WW2, with Soviet soldiers using their Mosin rifles to treat German brake fluid in this manner. 1. Be someplace very cold. 2. Find a steel crowbar or something similar (metal and long). 3. Stick it in a bucket. 4. Drip brake fluid onto the exposed end such that the liquid flows slowly along the surface into the bucket. This supposedly filters out most of the chemicals as they freeze onto the cold metal surface, leaving the liquid in the bucket drinkable. I would strongly advise against actually trying this for real, though.
  - kdmtctl 2y ago
    One can't drink glue. You need to make a mixer head (drill and wire is OK) and collect the solid dissolved mass on it. The rest you can drink.
russell_h 2y ago
I read somewhere that some Soviet jets used huge quantities of alcohol for cooling.
- echoangle 2y ago
  Specifically the Tu-22 is known for this.
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    Many of the Russian fighters still in active service have alcohol coolant. The ground crews are reputed to partake when they want a tipple.
  - p_l 2y ago
    MiG-21 radars used high quality pure ethanol in evaporating cooling system
- natmaka 2y ago
  Some did, however there were no Soviet jets at the time of this story.
- genocidicbunny 2y ago
  Still do, though these days they're a little more efficient, so it's only the flight crew that needs to be cooled with that alcohol.

nicbou 2y ago

I read the same story from Anthony Beevor’s book about the battle of Berlin, although I think it was a different chemical. The Red Army seemed to have a drinking problem.

mschuster91 2y ago
> The Red Army seemed to have a drinking problem. s/seemed to have/has had and still has/ Life in Soviet/Russian armies is grim. Many of the recruits come from remote regions so poor that they lack fridges, washing machines and even toilets (today as well [2], hence all the looting in Ukraine [3]). Broken-down equipment - either because it was crap from the factory or because someone along the chain sold off parts and fuel on the black market -, substandard equipment, shoddy living conditions, and on top of all of that (which would turn most Western soldiers into alcoholics already) come brutal hazing rituals [1] that traumatise those who manage to survive it (there's tens of thousands of incidents a year, and as late as 2006 hundreds of deaths a year), and the meatwave battle strategy that both past and current leadership have embraced. No wonder that the Russian / Soviet / Russian army has always been associated with alcoholism, most of them self-medicate with it (or whatever other drugs they can get their hands on). And it's also no surprise given the traumatisation that many of the Russian soldiers act completely depraved on the battlefield - why not rape, torture and kill for fun, when you're probably not going to survive the war long enough to get held accountable? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina [2] https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-still-a-pipe-dream-for-20-of-russian-households-reports-say-a65049 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2019/04/02/indoor-plumbing-st... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_by_Russian_forces_during_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Looting_by_Russian_forces_duri...
- pnutjam 2y ago
  Look for a copy of Zinky Boys. It shows the conditions for Soviet soldiers during the Afghan war, I think it hasn't changed much.
- ahartmetz 2y ago
  Don't forget shitty leadership - harsh, anti-intellectual, and expecting obedienece, not initiative.

cafard 2y ago

According to my father, a number of GIs blinded or otherwise injured themselves experimenting with antifreeze around VE day.

saalweachter 2y ago

Alcoholism in Russia, and most of the former USSR is just like, real bad. The sex ratio in Russia is something like 80 men : 100 women, and it's mostly due to alcohol.

mock-possum 2y ago
Do women not drink? Or are men somehow more susceptible?
- saalweachter 2y ago
  > Do women not drink? Kinda, sorta? The global data is roughly "the more patriarchal a society is, the less women drink". > Or are men somehow more susceptible? That's also possible, but it's hard to suss out of the data, because the cultural aspects are so large. In some countries, alcohol use is like an order of magnitude higher for men than women, and in others it's roughly equal.

nradov 2y ago

Soviet air force personnel had it better. The Tupolev Tu-22 bomber used a cooling system that contained 40% pure alcohol so of course that was constantly siphoned off. https://youtu.be/bKoHMXggEHU https://youtu.be/bKoHMXggEHU