7 ms·

lmao, what do you mean by backdoor? how else would someone legally immigrate?

toast0 2y ago
Some people get upset that someone on a 'non-immigrant' 'temporary employment' visa can apply for permanent residency, although that is allowed by the H1-B program. Otherwise, one could immigrate through a different visa; there are some employment visas that are explicitly intended for those with intent to immigrate. Or like a family or lottery visa, I guess. I think it's possible to have a permanent residency application sponsored by an employer from abroad, but especially if the candidate is from China, India, Mexico or the Philipines, the timelines make even less sense than H1-B timelines (submit your application in a two week window near the beginning of March, for the chance to start in October). I don't know too many places that want to commit to a hire that can't start for 7 months, although it's not unreasonable for those on post graduate visas with work eligibility.
- ganeshkrishnan 2y ago
  It takes around 20+ years to go from H1b to permanent visa/green card. In the meantime your kids born in US have grown up, graduated, you have a house and everything could be yanked at the border when you are travelling. Meanwhile vast majority of them pay into taxes and social security and leave the US and never see a dime of that money. Immigrants are the easiest group to exploit by everyone because they have no voice and are vilified by vast majority of the people include the so called intellectuals in here.
  - newyankee 2y ago
    Yup, left US after years of working and doubt will ever see social security for self.
    - next_xibalba 2y ago
      I’m sure this is no consolation, but as a born-and-raised citizen who has paid into social security for 15 years now, I have serious doubts about seeing a positive return on those taxes myself.
      - lern_too_spel 2y ago
        That's not how social security works. You're not supposed to get a positive return. You directly pay a basic income to retired people (minus administration costs). When you retire, workers pay a basic income to you.
        dataflow 2y ago
        I'm pretty sure they understand how social security works. You missed the point they were making.
        lern_too_spel 2y ago
        Asking for a positive return on social security is like asking for a positive return on welfare. The positive return comes from not having so many homeless old people all over the country. It's not a personal investment vehicle.
        FredPret 2y ago
        It could be that OP expects Social Security to be kaput by the time he gets to be old. Looking at the population graph, that’s a valid concern. There’s a ton of boomers and a ton of millenials, but very few babies to pay for our retirement. (This phenomenon could invalidate even individual stock investment retirement plans as well. We need a future generation of workers, investors, entrepreneurs, consumers).
        dataflow 2y ago
        > This phenomenon could invalidate even individual stock investment retirement plans as well. It has always baffled me how nobody ever takes this into account for investments.
  - geodel 2y ago
    So these highly skilled and smart immigrants coming on H1 to US without ever understanding what they are getting into? They should absolutely be shunning this unfair system and helping India become vishwaguru of software.
    - School-Cotton 2y ago
      The byzantine US immigration system absolutely is an impediment to people coming and staying here, and in my (admittedly anecdotal) estimation is a major competitive disadvantage, and a big part of the reason the UK, EU, Canada and China are making progress towards becoming tech hubs.
      - geodel 2y ago
        Well everyone is making progress. Relevant point is how far they have come and how long they've taken.
        aylmao 2y ago
        Those particular cases have benefited by the shortcomings of the USA actually. I know some big tech companies send workers who weren't able to secure US immigration specifically to offices in Canada, the UK or the EU. For example Meta and Google [1][2]. One can expect the company then grows an interest in developing full engineering teams in these sites. One can also expect some people might simply decide to not come back to the USA. With the general rise of China's tech scene, recently there's been a trend by which the USA doesn't retain Chinese international students and they instead opt to return home. One has to imagine the very, very long immigration process they have to go to has to do with this [4]. [1]: https://www.teamblind.com/post/Does-Meta-relocate-you-to-Canada-when-H1b-is-up-W7VRk0as https://www.teamblind.com/post/Does-Meta-relocate-you-to-Can... [2]: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-difficult-to-relocate-from-the-Google-London-office-to-Mountain-View-after-a-year-of-work-time-needed-to-acquire-L-1-visa https://www.quora.com/Is-it-difficult-to-relocate-from-the-G... [3]: https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-08-29/The-return-wave-Why-80-of-China-s-top-graduates-are-returning-home-1wsRciUg7ok/p.html https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-08-29/The-return-wave-Why-80... [4]: https://www.statista.com/chart/16528/long-wait-times-for-green-cards/ https://www.statista.com/chart/16528/long-wait-times-for-gre...
  - BeetleB 2y ago
    > It takes around 20+ years to go from H1b to permanent visa/green card. Primarily only for Indians. For almost everyone else, it's much quicker. Most people I know get it in 2-3 years. Many in under 2 years. (And yes, it's frankly immoral that they have a separate queue for Indians). So don't get rid of H1B. Make it one queue.
  - thatfrenchguy 2y ago
    20 years only if you're born in India married to someone born in India. Not great either way though, but it's really affecting the Indian community because of their particular norms.
    - toast0 2y ago
      If your spouse is a US citizen or permanent resident on their own, great. But if you're on H1-B and your spouse is on H-4, I don't think their country of birth makes a difference? If you're both on H1-B, then sure, having a different country of birth can help.
      - lanakei 2y ago
        It does make a difference. When filing for adjustment of status, you can request USCIS to consider both you and your spouse as chargable to your spouse's country of birth, and therefore be placed in a more favourable GC queue. This is called cross-chargeability [1]. Because of this, the "100-year green card queue" problem only really applies for a couple who are both born in India/China, with kids who are not born in the US. If even one child was born in the US, they would be able to sponsor both parents for an immediate green card when they turn 21 years old. In the meantime, the H1-B beneficiary can extend their visa indefinitely and port their approved I-140 whenever they switch jobs, with a 6-month grace period. The spouse also has full working rights. 21 years is a long time, but while working, both parents will accumulate social security credits and will be eligible to recieve benefits upon retirement (if they've secured a green card by then). [1] https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-7-part-a-chapter-6 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-7-part-a-chapter-...
  - rbanffy 2y ago
    > your kids born in US have grown up And now even their citizenship is threatened.
    - ImJamal 2y ago
      If they were born here then they are citizens and nobody is advocating stripping them of citizenship.
      - rbanffy 2y ago
        Not if the next president gets away with it: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-12-16/trump-said-he-would-revoke-birthright-citizenship-it-hasnt-worked-in-the-past https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-12-16/trump-said... It's unlikely he'll succeed, and he walked back on many campaign promises.
        ImJamal 2y ago
        You are confusing what he is calling for. He is not advocating for people who are already citizens to lose their citizenship. He is saying, going forward, people who are born here will not automatically be given citizenship.
- addicted 2y ago
  > Some people get upset that someone on a 'non-immigrant' 'temporary employment' visa can apply for permanent residency, although that is allowed by the H1-B program. The H1B visa is explicitly a dual intent visa. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent Becoming a permanent resident is explicitly allowed under the H1B visa. By contrast, if an immigration officer even had a suspicion that you intended to immigrate on any other visa, that would be sufficient grounds for them to disallow you from entering the country. Further, the dual intent nature of the H1B visa means H1B employees pay social security and Medicare, even though they themselves are not eligible for it. Something you don’t have to do if you earn money on a non dual intent visa. The H1B visa is indeed temporary. It lasts only 6 years. But it allows you, or your employer, to apply for your permanent residency on the basis of other categories while you’re in the U.S. on an H1B visa. IOW, the only real use of the H1B is that it lets an employer get to know an employee well enough that they’re willing to sponsor their permanent residency. Also, the other reason the H1B appears overused and not “temporary” is because in a moment of brilliance Congress wrote laws so that there were an equal number of green cards handed out to people from Jamaica as those from China. As a result, when Indians and Chinese apply and get approved for a green card, they need to wait decades to actually get those green cards, whereas someone from Greece would get it instantly. Since Congress hasn’t been able to write new immigration laws in 3 decades, extending thenH1B visa is the only way to allow folks who have essentially approved green cards to remain in the U.S., because they’re discriminated by their country of birth.
  - toast0 2y ago
    > The H1B visa is explicitly a dual intent visa. ... Becoming a permanent resident is explicitly allowed under the H1B visa. I am aware that this is allowed. However, the DOL describes the program like this: [1] > The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as workers in specialty occupations or as fashion models of distinguished merit and ability. A specialty occupation is one that requires the application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and the attainment of at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent. The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States. So I understand why people would be confused or upset when nonimmigrant aliens with temporary employment authorization end up immigrating. I also agree that allocating a limited number of residencies by country of birth is pretty bizarre. There are some countries where the whole population could get a green card in a single year (if they were all eligible), but people born in Mexico and India have a 20 year backlog in some categories. Some sort of population or land area factor should apply. The impacted countries may want to consider strategic division to improve their US immigration backlogs ;P and they could gain more votes in the UN General Assembly, too. [1] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b

Some people get upset that someone on a 'non-immigrant' 'temporary employment' visa can apply for permanent residency, although that is allowed by the H1-B program. Otherwise, one could immigrate through a different visa; there are some employment visas that are explicitly intended for those with intent to immigrate. Or like a family or lottery visa, I guess. I think it's possible to have a permanent residency application sponsored by an employer from abroad, but especially if the candidate is from China, India, Mexico or the Philipines, the timelines make even less sense than H1-B timelines (submit your application in a two week window near the beginning of March, for the chance to start in October). I don't know too many places that want to commit to a hire that can't start for 7 months, although it's not unreasonable for those on post graduate visas with work eligibility.

ganeshkrishnan 2y ago
It takes around 20+ years to go from H1b to permanent visa/green card. In the meantime your kids born in US have grown up, graduated, you have a house and everything could be yanked at the border when you are travelling. Meanwhile vast majority of them pay into taxes and social security and leave the US and never see a dime of that money. Immigrants are the easiest group to exploit by everyone because they have no voice and are vilified by vast majority of the people include the so called intellectuals in here.
- newyankee 2y ago
  Yup, left US after years of working and doubt will ever see social security for self.
  - next_xibalba 2y ago
    I’m sure this is no consolation, but as a born-and-raised citizen who has paid into social security for 15 years now, I have serious doubts about seeing a positive return on those taxes myself.
    - lern_too_spel 2y ago
      That's not how social security works. You're not supposed to get a positive return. You directly pay a basic income to retired people (minus administration costs). When you retire, workers pay a basic income to you.
      - dataflow 2y ago
        I'm pretty sure they understand how social security works. You missed the point they were making.
        lern_too_spel 2y ago
        Asking for a positive return on social security is like asking for a positive return on welfare. The positive return comes from not having so many homeless old people all over the country. It's not a personal investment vehicle.
        FredPret 2y ago
        It could be that OP expects Social Security to be kaput by the time he gets to be old. Looking at the population graph, that’s a valid concern. There’s a ton of boomers and a ton of millenials, but very few babies to pay for our retirement. (This phenomenon could invalidate even individual stock investment retirement plans as well. We need a future generation of workers, investors, entrepreneurs, consumers).
        dataflow 2y ago
        > This phenomenon could invalidate even individual stock investment retirement plans as well. It has always baffled me how nobody ever takes this into account for investments.
- geodel 2y ago
  So these highly skilled and smart immigrants coming on H1 to US without ever understanding what they are getting into? They should absolutely be shunning this unfair system and helping India become vishwaguru of software.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    The byzantine US immigration system absolutely is an impediment to people coming and staying here, and in my (admittedly anecdotal) estimation is a major competitive disadvantage, and a big part of the reason the UK, EU, Canada and China are making progress towards becoming tech hubs.
    - geodel 2y ago
      Well everyone is making progress. Relevant point is how far they have come and how long they've taken.
      - aylmao 2y ago
        Those particular cases have benefited by the shortcomings of the USA actually. I know some big tech companies send workers who weren't able to secure US immigration specifically to offices in Canada, the UK or the EU. For example Meta and Google [1][2]. One can expect the company then grows an interest in developing full engineering teams in these sites. One can also expect some people might simply decide to not come back to the USA. With the general rise of China's tech scene, recently there's been a trend by which the USA doesn't retain Chinese international students and they instead opt to return home. One has to imagine the very, very long immigration process they have to go to has to do with this [4]. [1]: https://www.teamblind.com/post/Does-Meta-relocate-you-to-Canada-when-H1b-is-up-W7VRk0as https://www.teamblind.com/post/Does-Meta-relocate-you-to-Can... [2]: https://www.quora.com/Is-it-difficult-to-relocate-from-the-Google-London-office-to-Mountain-View-after-a-year-of-work-time-needed-to-acquire-L-1-visa https://www.quora.com/Is-it-difficult-to-relocate-from-the-G... [3]: https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-08-29/The-return-wave-Why-80-of-China-s-top-graduates-are-returning-home-1wsRciUg7ok/p.html https://news.cgtn.com/news/2024-08-29/The-return-wave-Why-80... [4]: https://www.statista.com/chart/16528/long-wait-times-for-green-cards/ https://www.statista.com/chart/16528/long-wait-times-for-gre...
- BeetleB 2y ago
  > It takes around 20+ years to go from H1b to permanent visa/green card. Primarily only for Indians. For almost everyone else, it's much quicker. Most people I know get it in 2-3 years. Many in under 2 years. (And yes, it's frankly immoral that they have a separate queue for Indians). So don't get rid of H1B. Make it one queue.
- thatfrenchguy 2y ago
  20 years only if you're born in India married to someone born in India. Not great either way though, but it's really affecting the Indian community because of their particular norms.
  - toast0 2y ago
    If your spouse is a US citizen or permanent resident on their own, great. But if you're on H1-B and your spouse is on H-4, I don't think their country of birth makes a difference? If you're both on H1-B, then sure, having a different country of birth can help.
    - lanakei 2y ago
      It does make a difference. When filing for adjustment of status, you can request USCIS to consider both you and your spouse as chargable to your spouse's country of birth, and therefore be placed in a more favourable GC queue. This is called cross-chargeability [1]. Because of this, the "100-year green card queue" problem only really applies for a couple who are both born in India/China, with kids who are not born in the US. If even one child was born in the US, they would be able to sponsor both parents for an immediate green card when they turn 21 years old. In the meantime, the H1-B beneficiary can extend their visa indefinitely and port their approved I-140 whenever they switch jobs, with a 6-month grace period. The spouse also has full working rights. 21 years is a long time, but while working, both parents will accumulate social security credits and will be eligible to recieve benefits upon retirement (if they've secured a green card by then). [1] https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-7-part-a-chapter-6 https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-7-part-a-chapter-...
- rbanffy 2y ago
  > your kids born in US have grown up And now even their citizenship is threatened.
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    If they were born here then they are citizens and nobody is advocating stripping them of citizenship.
    - rbanffy 2y ago
      Not if the next president gets away with it: https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-12-16/trump-said-he-would-revoke-birthright-citizenship-it-hasnt-worked-in-the-past https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2024-12-16/trump-said... It's unlikely he'll succeed, and he walked back on many campaign promises.
      - ImJamal 2y ago
        You are confusing what he is calling for. He is not advocating for people who are already citizens to lose their citizenship. He is saying, going forward, people who are born here will not automatically be given citizenship.
addicted 2y ago
> Some people get upset that someone on a 'non-immigrant' 'temporary employment' visa can apply for permanent residency, although that is allowed by the H1-B program. The H1B visa is explicitly a dual intent visa. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_intent Becoming a permanent resident is explicitly allowed under the H1B visa. By contrast, if an immigration officer even had a suspicion that you intended to immigrate on any other visa, that would be sufficient grounds for them to disallow you from entering the country. Further, the dual intent nature of the H1B visa means H1B employees pay social security and Medicare, even though they themselves are not eligible for it. Something you don’t have to do if you earn money on a non dual intent visa. The H1B visa is indeed temporary. It lasts only 6 years. But it allows you, or your employer, to apply for your permanent residency on the basis of other categories while you’re in the U.S. on an H1B visa. IOW, the only real use of the H1B is that it lets an employer get to know an employee well enough that they’re willing to sponsor their permanent residency. Also, the other reason the H1B appears overused and not “temporary” is because in a moment of brilliance Congress wrote laws so that there were an equal number of green cards handed out to people from Jamaica as those from China. As a result, when Indians and Chinese apply and get approved for a green card, they need to wait decades to actually get those green cards, whereas someone from Greece would get it instantly. Since Congress hasn’t been able to write new immigration laws in 3 decades, extending thenH1B visa is the only way to allow folks who have essentially approved green cards to remain in the U.S., because they’re discriminated by their country of birth.
- toast0 2y ago
  > The H1B visa is explicitly a dual intent visa. ... Becoming a permanent resident is explicitly allowed under the H1B visa. I am aware that this is allowed. However, the DOL describes the program like this: [1] > The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as workers in specialty occupations or as fashion models of distinguished merit and ability. A specialty occupation is one that requires the application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and the attainment of at least a bachelor’s degree or its equivalent. The intent of the H-1B provisions is to help employers who cannot otherwise obtain needed business skills and abilities from the U.S. workforce by authorizing the temporary employment of qualified individuals who are not otherwise authorized to work in the United States. So I understand why people would be confused or upset when nonimmigrant aliens with temporary employment authorization end up immigrating. I also agree that allocating a limited number of residencies by country of birth is pretty bizarre. There are some countries where the whole population could get a green card in a single year (if they were all eligible), but people born in Mexico and India have a 20 year backlog in some categories. Some sort of population or land area factor should apply. The impacted countries may want to consider strategic division to improve their US immigration backlogs ;P and they could gain more votes in the UN General Assembly, too. [1] https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b