4 ms·

So now likely hundreds (or more) of individuals have to not only wait on hold forever, but have to learn the process of and actually go through with filing a sm

by hiatus 2y ago

So now likely hundreds (or more) of individuals have to not only wait on hold forever, but have to learn the process of and actually go through with filing a small claim? That there is recourse is beside the point when it is mired in bureaucracy (not to mention taking days off to show up to court, etc).

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Class action suits may be easier, if only arbitration was opt-in-by-default or easier to opt out of.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  Class action is an utter joke that has done nothing more than FURTHER commodify harming consumers for a price. If a company sends you a $2 check ten years after they recognize a profit from defrauding you or lying to you or harming you, that's not a punishment, and is certainly not an incentive to not do those things.
  - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
    I think they punish companies to a considerable degree. It's just that since legal costs on both sides are non-trivial, not much makes it to the harmed consumers.
  - zeagle 2y ago
    In practice they serve to enrich lawyers and that’s about it.
    - shitlord 2y ago
      That's not true. They also enrich the lawyers' preferred nonprofit organizations.
DiscourseFan 2y ago
it only takes a few hits from lawsuits for the companies to fix the process.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
TeMPOraL 2y ago
I'm surprised I haven't yet heard of companies who would handle this for you, like there are e.g. for handling the process of getting compensation when an airline screws up scheduling or loses baggage, etc. I'm guessing there isn't enough money to be won there for them to be able to survive off a percentage of it.
- fooker 2y ago
  A hypothetical company that can do this, would also be capable of handling much more lucrative class action suits.
  - account42 2y ago
    But they also have competition in the class action suit space but less so in the small claims case. In some jurisdictions you have to show up to small claims yourself though which prevents some third party from just handling it. Makes sense since the idea behind small claims is to keep the legal costs low enough that you actually have a chance of recovering smaller sums without paying more then what you will get.
  - garfieldnate 2y ago
    That's actually a great idea! Something like the companies that take care of getting refunds for flight tickets when the flight is delayed too long (in Germany you are legally entitled to a refund, but the process is long, so there are companies that do it for you and take a piece). They might have some common claims that they can add to a catalog. You could cut costs by re-using paperwork on these. As long as they could claim legal fees, which I'm not sure of.
- smsm42 2y ago
  I used such a company for airline compensation once. Took them 2 years to drag the process around and at the end I got nothing.
db48x 2y ago
Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.
- vacuity 2y ago
  This isn't schoolchildren all being bystanders or victims to a peer bully. There is a much larger asymmetry in time, money, and credibilty here.
  - db48x 2y ago
    That’s the whole reason that small claims court exists.
    - vacuity 2y ago
      Wish I got a manual on small claims courts when I became an adult. Or sooner. And, like, the resources to exercise it without taking up more of my time or anything. It's a strange imbalance for something that is entirely the company's fault. Of course there are bound to be legitimate issues on either side, but for something blatant like this, I would that the burden wouldn't be on me.
      - nradov 2y ago
        Do you expect others to do every little thing for you? You don't need a manual. The filing forms are right there on your county court website. Learning how to deal with this stuff on your own is part of becoming an adult in the real world. Sometimes you have to expend a little time and effort.
    - olyjohn 2y ago
      Yeah take days off work to get $300. Totally worth it! I can't understand why everybody doesn't do it.
      - db48x 2y ago

by hiatus 2y ago

paulryanrogers 2y ago

Class action suits may be easier, if only arbitration was opt-in-by-default or easier to opt out of.

mrguyorama 2y ago
Class action is an utter joke that has done nothing more than FURTHER commodify harming consumers for a price. If a company sends you a $2 check ten years after they recognize a profit from defrauding you or lying to you or harming you, that's not a punishment, and is certainly not an incentive to not do those things.
- AlchemistCamp 2y ago
  I think they punish companies to a considerable degree. It's just that since legal costs on both sides are non-trivial, not much makes it to the harmed consumers.
- zeagle 2y ago
  In practice they serve to enrich lawyers and that’s about it.
  - shitlord 2y ago
    That's not true. They also enrich the lawyers' preferred nonprofit organizations.

DiscourseFan 2y ago

it only takes a few hits from lawsuits for the companies to fix the process.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

TeMPOraL 2y ago

I'm surprised I haven't yet heard of companies who would handle this for you, like there are e.g. for handling the process of getting compensation when an airline screws up scheduling or loses baggage, etc. I'm guessing there isn't enough money to be won there for them to be able to survive off a percentage of it.

fooker 2y ago
A hypothetical company that can do this, would also be capable of handling much more lucrative class action suits.
- account42 2y ago
  But they also have competition in the class action suit space but less so in the small claims case. In some jurisdictions you have to show up to small claims yourself though which prevents some third party from just handling it. Makes sense since the idea behind small claims is to keep the legal costs low enough that you actually have a chance of recovering smaller sums without paying more then what you will get.
- garfieldnate 2y ago
  That's actually a great idea! Something like the companies that take care of getting refunds for flight tickets when the flight is delayed too long (in Germany you are legally entitled to a refund, but the process is long, so there are companies that do it for you and take a piece). They might have some common claims that they can add to a catalog. You could cut costs by re-using paperwork on these. As long as they could claim legal fees, which I'm not sure of.
smsm42 2y ago
I used such a company for airline compensation once. Took them 2 years to drag the process around and at the end I got nothing.

db48x 2y ago

Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.

vacuity 2y ago
This isn't schoolchildren all being bystanders or victims to a peer bully. There is a much larger asymmetry in time, money, and credibilty here.
- db48x 2y ago
  That’s the whole reason that small claims court exists.
  - vacuity 2y ago
    Wish I got a manual on small claims courts when I became an adult. Or sooner. And, like, the resources to exercise it without taking up more of my time or anything. It's a strange imbalance for something that is entirely the company's fault. Of course there are bound to be legitimate issues on either side, but for something blatant like this, I would that the burden wouldn't be on me.
    - nradov 2y ago
      Do you expect others to do every little thing for you? You don't need a manual. The filing forms are right there on your county court website. Learning how to deal with this stuff on your own is part of becoming an adult in the real world. Sometimes you have to expend a little time and effort.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    Yeah take days off work to get $300. Totally worth it! I can't understand why everybody doesn't do it.
    - db48x 2y ago