4 ms·

Dish is evil. Years ago when signed up with them I opted to pay the extra service for local tv channels, which required an andditional antenna to install. For

Dish is evil. Years ago when signed up with them I opted to pay the extra service for local tv channels, which required an andditional antenna to install. For some reason the installer couldn’t fit it securely on our house, and said to call Dish to remove the service since we cannot receive it. Dish refused to remove the local service! They said since we signed a contract we were stuck paying for it even though they couldn’t fit the antenna. I pointed out in a hundred different ways that the contract also required them to provide a service which they are not providing so we shouldn’t have to pay. All of my attempts to reason with them were ignored, and their call staff refused to escalate to their manager. Long story short we had to pay for twelve months for something they couldn’t provide to us. Literally the minute the contract was up we cancelled (it was easier to cancel back then). I would never ever go near this company again.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Isn't this what small claims court is for?
- hiatus 2y ago
  So now likely hundreds (or more) of individuals have to not only wait on hold forever, but have to learn the process of and actually go through with filing a small claim? That there is recourse is beside the point when it is mired in bureaucracy (not to mention taking days off to show up to court, etc).
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    Class action suits may be easier, if only arbitration was opt-in-by-default or easier to opt out of.
    - mrguyorama 2y ago
      Class action is an utter joke that has done nothing more than FURTHER commodify harming consumers for a price. If a company sends you a $2 check ten years after they recognize a profit from defrauding you or lying to you or harming you, that's not a punishment, and is certainly not an incentive to not do those things.
      - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
        I think they punish companies to a considerable degree. It's just that since legal costs on both sides are non-trivial, not much makes it to the harmed consumers.
      - zeagle 2y ago
        In practice they serve to enrich lawyers and that’s about it.
        shitlord 2y ago
        That's not true. They also enrich the lawyers' preferred nonprofit organizations.
  - DiscourseFan 2y ago
    it only takes a few hits from lawsuits for the companies to fix the process.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    I'm surprised I haven't yet heard of companies who would handle this for you, like there are e.g. for handling the process of getting compensation when an airline screws up scheduling or loses baggage, etc. I'm guessing there isn't enough money to be won there for them to be able to survive off a percentage of it.
    - fooker 2y ago
      A hypothetical company that can do this, would also be capable of handling much more lucrative class action suits.
      - account42 2y ago
        But they also have competition in the class action suit space but less so in the small claims case. In some jurisdictions you have to show up to small claims yourself though which prevents some third party from just handling it. Makes sense since the idea behind small claims is to keep the legal costs low enough that you actually have a chance of recovering smaller sums without paying more then what you will get.
      - garfieldnate 2y ago
        That's actually a great idea! Something like the companies that take care of getting refunds for flight tickets when the flight is delayed too long (in Germany you are legally entitled to a refund, but the process is long, so there are companies that do it for you and take a piece). They might have some common claims that they can add to a catalog. You could cut costs by re-using paperwork on these. As long as they could claim legal fees, which I'm not sure of.
    - smsm42 2y ago
      I used such a company for airline compensation once. Took them 2 years to drag the process around and at the end I got nothing.
  - db48x 2y ago
    Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.
    - vacuity 2y ago
      This isn't schoolchildren all being bystanders or victims to a peer bully. There is a much larger asymmetry in time, money, and credibilty here.
      - db48x 2y ago
        That’s the whole reason that small claims court exists.
        vacuity 2y ago
        Wish I got a manual on small claims courts when I became an adult. Or sooner. And, like, the resources to exercise it without taking up more of my time or anything. It's a strange imbalance for something that is entirely the company's fault. Of course there are bound to be legitimate issues on either side, but for something blatant like this, I would that the burden wouldn't be on me.
        nradov 2y ago
        Do you expect others to do every little thing for you? You don't need a manual. The filing forms are right there on your county court website. Learning how to deal with this stuff on your own is part of becoming an adult in the real world. Sometimes you have to expend a little time and effort.
        olyjohn 2y ago
        Yeah take days off work to get $300. Totally worth it! I can't understand why everybody doesn't do it.
        db48x 2y ago
- dh2022 2y ago
  Terms and Conditions usually spell out the dispute process. You may find out that disputes need to go to arbitration court in a different state.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Alternatively, you can take them to small claims court and see if the judge there is hyper-interested in upholding their insanely restrictive contracts. They can appeal a judgment, of course, but that's likely to be far more expensive for them than just honoring the decision.
- noprocrasted 2y ago
  You don't even need small claims court. You just don't pay, and point them to (small claims?) court if they want to get paid for the service they don't provide. None of these shit companies will ever take you up on the offer though, because expecting to get paid for a service you don't provide (and can't provide in this case) won't fly in court.
  - mikestew 2y ago
    You just don't pay, and point them to (small claims?) court if they want to get paid for the service they don't provide. Have you actually tried this? Because having not tried it myself, I'd bet a paycheck that you get sent to collections, get a ding on your credit report, and you're still on the hook for taking it to court if you want it resolve to your favor. (Assuming U. S.) And as a cherry on top of that shit sundae, it's probably in the contract that you have to go through arbitration anyway.
    - noprocrasted 2y ago
      I have done so multiple times, albeit in the UK. When collections calls, you explain them the situation (service not provided or whatever, and evidence of trying to resolve it with them in good faith) and they go away. Have yet to see a court summons or anything, although I'd love to see them try their lies in court. I did not care about the credit report impact - it's probably the only valid reason not to do this if this is something you care about.
      - mikestew 2y ago
        I have done so multiple times, albeit in the UK. Thanks for the follow-up. I suspect UK does make a difference, but IANAL in either country. I do, however, have a bit of personal experience in the U. S. :-)
    - jtbayly 2y ago
      The first thing that would happen is they would cut off all your service. If you are relying on them for something other than the thing you don’t want to pay for, this becomes a problem. For example, I disputed a charge with my CC from the Apple App Store when I was charged for an app that I shouldn’t have been years ago. They immediately cut off my access to the Store. Other apps couldn’t update, OS couldn’t update, couldn’t get new apps, etc.

paulryanrogers 2y ago

Isn't this what small claims court is for?

hiatus 2y ago
So now likely hundreds (or more) of individuals have to not only wait on hold forever, but have to learn the process of and actually go through with filing a small claim? That there is recourse is beside the point when it is mired in bureaucracy (not to mention taking days off to show up to court, etc).
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Class action suits may be easier, if only arbitration was opt-in-by-default or easier to opt out of.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    Class action is an utter joke that has done nothing more than FURTHER commodify harming consumers for a price. If a company sends you a $2 check ten years after they recognize a profit from defrauding you or lying to you or harming you, that's not a punishment, and is certainly not an incentive to not do those things.
    - AlchemistCamp 2y ago
      I think they punish companies to a considerable degree. It's just that since legal costs on both sides are non-trivial, not much makes it to the harmed consumers.
    - zeagle 2y ago
      In practice they serve to enrich lawyers and that’s about it.
      - shitlord 2y ago
        That's not true. They also enrich the lawyers' preferred nonprofit organizations.
- DiscourseFan 2y ago
  it only takes a few hits from lawsuits for the companies to fix the process.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  I'm surprised I haven't yet heard of companies who would handle this for you, like there are e.g. for handling the process of getting compensation when an airline screws up scheduling or loses baggage, etc. I'm guessing there isn't enough money to be won there for them to be able to survive off a percentage of it.
  - fooker 2y ago
    A hypothetical company that can do this, would also be capable of handling much more lucrative class action suits.
    - account42 2y ago
      But they also have competition in the class action suit space but less so in the small claims case. In some jurisdictions you have to show up to small claims yourself though which prevents some third party from just handling it. Makes sense since the idea behind small claims is to keep the legal costs low enough that you actually have a chance of recovering smaller sums without paying more then what you will get.
    - garfieldnate 2y ago
      That's actually a great idea! Something like the companies that take care of getting refunds for flight tickets when the flight is delayed too long (in Germany you are legally entitled to a refund, but the process is long, so there are companies that do it for you and take a piece). They might have some common claims that they can add to a catalog. You could cut costs by re-using paperwork on these. As long as they could claim legal fees, which I'm not sure of.
  - smsm42 2y ago
    I used such a company for airline compensation once. Took them 2 years to drag the process around and at the end I got nothing.
- db48x 2y ago
  Only a few would actually have to do it. But if everyone lets them get away with it, then I have no sympathy.
  - vacuity 2y ago
    This isn't schoolchildren all being bystanders or victims to a peer bully. There is a much larger asymmetry in time, money, and credibilty here.
    - db48x 2y ago
      That’s the whole reason that small claims court exists.
      - vacuity 2y ago
        Wish I got a manual on small claims courts when I became an adult. Or sooner. And, like, the resources to exercise it without taking up more of my time or anything. It's a strange imbalance for something that is entirely the company's fault. Of course there are bound to be legitimate issues on either side, but for something blatant like this, I would that the burden wouldn't be on me.
        nradov 2y ago
        Do you expect others to do every little thing for you? You don't need a manual. The filing forms are right there on your county court website. Learning how to deal with this stuff on your own is part of becoming an adult in the real world. Sometimes you have to expend a little time and effort.
      - olyjohn 2y ago
        Yeah take days off work to get $300. Totally worth it! I can't understand why everybody doesn't do it.
        db48x 2y ago
dh2022 2y ago
Terms and Conditions usually spell out the dispute process. You may find out that disputes need to go to arbitration court in a different state.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Alternatively, you can take them to small claims court and see if the judge there is hyper-interested in upholding their insanely restrictive contracts. They can appeal a judgment, of course, but that's likely to be far more expensive for them than just honoring the decision.
noprocrasted 2y ago
You don't even need small claims court. You just don't pay, and point them to (small claims?) court if they want to get paid for the service they don't provide. None of these shit companies will ever take you up on the offer though, because expecting to get paid for a service you don't provide (and can't provide in this case) won't fly in court.
- mikestew 2y ago
  You just don't pay, and point them to (small claims?) court if they want to get paid for the service they don't provide. Have you actually tried this? Because having not tried it myself, I'd bet a paycheck that you get sent to collections, get a ding on your credit report, and you're still on the hook for taking it to court if you want it resolve to your favor. (Assuming U. S.) And as a cherry on top of that shit sundae, it's probably in the contract that you have to go through arbitration anyway.
  - noprocrasted 2y ago
    I have done so multiple times, albeit in the UK. When collections calls, you explain them the situation (service not provided or whatever, and evidence of trying to resolve it with them in good faith) and they go away. Have yet to see a court summons or anything, although I'd love to see them try their lies in court. I did not care about the credit report impact - it's probably the only valid reason not to do this if this is something you care about.
    - mikestew 2y ago
      I have done so multiple times, albeit in the UK. Thanks for the follow-up. I suspect UK does make a difference, but IANAL in either country. I do, however, have a bit of personal experience in the U. S. :-)
  - jtbayly 2y ago
    The first thing that would happen is they would cut off all your service. If you are relying on them for something other than the thing you don’t want to pay for, this becomes a problem. For example, I disputed a charge with my CC from the Apple App Store when I was charged for an app that I shouldn’t have been years ago. They immediately cut off my access to the Store. Other apps couldn’t update, OS couldn’t update, couldn’t get new apps, etc.